An Interview With Penny Bauder
Don’t get sucked into the win-lose paradigm. Those who profit from selfish behavior always want to frame the solution as win-lose. However, I have always found that this is, at the very best, the result of a lack of imagination. As we are all conscious living beings on a single finite planet, all long-term solutions to problems can be solved through win-win solutions.
As part of my series about “individuals and organizations making an important social impact”, I had the pleasure of interviewing Leif Cocks.
For over three decades world-renowned orangutan expert Leif Cocks has worked to secure the survival of Critically Endangered orangutans in the wild. He is an outspoken campaigner on their behalf and a key player in developing conservation plans for their protection, including leading the first-ever successful reintroduction of a zoo-born orangutan into the wild.
A small population biologist, Leif has several academic qualifications, including a Master of Science studying orangutans. He has been awarded Curtin University’s highest award for achievement and has published several academic papers on orangutans in peer-reviewed journals. He is the author of Orangutans and their Battle for Survival, the Amazon Best Seller Orangutans My Cousins, My Friends and his latest book published in April 2019 Finding Our Humanity.
In 2020, he was awarded the Order of Australia for his outstanding work in the field of wildlife conservation.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit. Can you tell us a bit how you grew up?
I grew up in Hong Kong with my parents and sister. We went to English private schools on the island and lived a wonderful childhood playing in that bustling, multicultural metropolis.
You are currently leading a social impact organization that is making a difference for our planet. Can you tell us a bit about what you and your organization are trying to change in our world today?
I established The Orangutan Project in 1998 to secure the survival of Critically Endangered orangutans in their natural habitat. Orangutan conservation is an umbrella that supports biodiversity conservation, indigenous communities and mitigation of climate change.
It’s a massively complex task, and I knew that the only way we were going to achieve it was to collectivize our actions and our resources.
Jump 30 years, and we’re resourcing the work of more than 20 dedicated ground organizations throughout Indonesia, fueled through the regular contributions of tens of thousands of donors around the world. We’re already making a massive difference, but it’s not yet enough.
Can you tell us the backstory about what inspired you to originally feel passionate about this cause?
Yes, I’ve worked with orangutans for over 30 years and initially, that was as a primate keeper. I quickly understood that orangutans were highly sentient, intelligent persons who didn’t belong in a zoo. In fact, they are greatly psychologically affected by captivity, just as we would be.
In addition, as a small population biologist I knew that like all zoo mega-fauna, the zoo populations of orangutans were unsustainable and unable to contribute to the species’ survival.
I led the project to rehabilitate and release the first zoo-born orangutan back into a protected Sumatran habitat. It was a great moment because until then it was presumed it couldn’t be done. But at the same time that I was releasing her, I was acutely aware that although the forest I was releasing her into was secure because of the rangers The Orangutan Project was funding, the forests of many other orangutans were being destroyed at a horrifying rate. Saving these remaining ecosystems before it’s too late and making sure every orangutan gets their chance to thrive wild, safe and free, is the main game.
Many of us have ideas, dreams, and passions, but never manifest it. They don’t get up and just do it. But you did. Was there an “Aha Moment” that made you decide that you were actually going to step up and do it? What was that final trigger?
There were two moments that combined. First, the personal connection I was establishing with the orangutans under my care, because they are intelligent, highly communicative persons. For example, I’ve had the privilege to have been at many orangutan births. Each time, shortly after the birth, the mother always reaches out to me and puts my hand over her infant’s tiny hand. You don’t come away from an experience like that still thinking it’s okay for orangutans to be in captivity!
The second was just the sheer horror of the knowledge we all have access to — that over 80% of the orangutans’ essential lowland rainforest has now been destroyed, that their populations have crashed, that we now only have a few years left to secure remaining populations of each species and subspecies of orangutan, in viable, intact ecosystems.
Many people don’t know the steps to take to start a new organization. But you did. What are some of the things or steps you took to get your project started?
Humans are successful, not because of our individual abilities, but more because of our ability to collectivize. So first we must be good at working with others. Second, people’s energies are sapped by polluting their actions with personal needs, such as recognition, reputation, power and remuneration. When you give up these egocentric requirements, you gain great energy and stamina to work through difficulties.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began leading your company or organization?
People think that the most dangerous things in the rainforest are tigers and snakes. However, you are more likely to be killed by bees or falling wood.
When I was assisting a female Sumatran orangutan called Temara to return to the wild, one day she disturbed a nest of bees. Temara was attacked, she then came down the tree to me, then we were both attacked and both had to run. When we finally lost the bees we sat together shoulder to shoulder under a tree. Looked at each other as if to say “that was a close one.” For a few minutes, we took a break from our respective roles, Me as a trainer, teaching her never to come to the ground where Sumatran tigers roamed and Temara as the student, learning to find food and safety in her new rainforest home. For those few minutes, exhausted, we were stripped of our roles and were just two conscious beings connected in time and space.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson or take away you learned from that?
Orangutans are smart and have long fingers and even longer arms. When cleaning the night area for a colony of orangutans one day, there was a male called Hsing Hsing who was inside for his treatment of diabetes. Unfortunately, as I was hosing the corridor, he managed to get hold of the hose and tried to reel the hose into this enclosure — to destroy it. As he is seven times stronger than me, I needed help to pull the hose back out. In order to do that, I had to, while keeping hold of the hose, get to the window to ask the other keepers for help. Hsing knew this, and for minutes he played me like an expert fisherman with a prize Marlin on the line. He would give me slack, but when I got close to the window he would pull me back in. He thoroughly enjoyed working the keeper on his line.
None of us can be successful without some help along the way. Did you have mentors or cheerleaders who helped you to succeed? Can you tell us a story about their influence?
My old primate supervisor, when I was an orangutan keeper, was Reg Gates — a wonderful American who I would never let forget that he did not join his friends at Woodstock, because he thought the festival would be a “bust.” Reg provided me with a model for integrity and the framework of starting a conservation charity from scratch.
Are there three things the community, society, or politicians can do to help you address the root of the problem you are trying to solve?
There are two main things. Climate Change is being driven by a number of factors but one of the main ones is deforestation to make way for livestock and to grow grain for livestock. Moving to a plant-based diet will drastically reduce the need for more global deforestation.
Secondly, join us, because it is only by collectivizing our resources that we can achieve this massive mission. Most of us in the Western World are in the top 2% of the world’s wealth. That means only we have the privilege to fund the change that needs to happen. That doesn’t mean you need to roll up your sleeves and do the work on the ground. One of the most important parts of our role is to create sustainable, forest-friendly jobs for local Indonesians. But it does mean collectivizing our funds.
For example, we know we need to raise around $20 million every year to legally protect eight lowland ecosystems and establish sustainable agricultural models so that, eventually, each ecosystem becomes economically sustainable and invested in by local people. We have the local entities, we have governance, and we have the know-how and skills of more than 20 ground partners across Indonesia. All we don’t have is enough funding!
How would you articulate how a business can become more profitable by being more sustainable and more environmentally conscious? Can you share a story or example?
Well for The Orangutan Project, we’ve never had an office. We each work from our own homes. This obviously reduces our organizational costs, and it also means our team doesn’t need a car or any sort of transport to get to work. It also means we’re not restricted by borders. We can arrange meetings with people around the world. We can employ the best people for the job, regardless of where they are. We rely on technology and only really have to grapple with time differences! We also moved to an almost entirely digital fundraising program a few years ago. Again this was driven by the fact that we have donors all around the world, but it has helped to cut our costs and environmental footprint enormously.
Environmentalism and long-term economics are the same thing. It is only exploitative businesses that pass the true cost of production onto the powerless, which is the problem.
What are your “5 things I wish someone told me when I first started” and why. Please share a story or example for each.
- In order to reform the world, you need to reform yourself. I see so many people in the conservation world that spend more time fighting each other. Due to their lack of happiness inside, they need either fame, reputation, money or power to provide temporary relief. This makes the whole movement struggle for effectiveness.
- To make meaningful change in the world we need to collectivize. We have been sold a ‘lie’ — that we are the problem and our individual decisions can change the world. Although I believe that we must make those ethical changes to our lives, as a matter of personal integrity. Those profiting through the destruction of our planet are only effective as they have collectivized as companies and/or governments. In order for us to be effective in saving the planet, we also have to collectivize.
- Education of the mind without the education of the heart is no education at all. We cannot fully understand others and their position unless we have empathy and can see through their eyes. We always fall short of real understanding unless we open up our hearts, as well as our minds.
- People act helplessly according to their nature. Attacking people for holding a different position to you, or for selfishly causing harm, never helps as they will just harden their positions and retreat to the collective delusion of their tribe, group or organization. It does not mean we should not do all we can to combat their negative activities, however, we need to do this with compassion.
- Don’t get sucked into the win-lose paradigm. Those who profit from selfish behavior always want to frame the solution as win-lose. However, I have always found that this is, at the very best, the result of a lack of imagination. As we are all conscious living beings on a single finite planet, all long-term solutions to problems can be solved through win-win solutions.
If you could tell other young people one thing about why they should consider making a positive impact on our environment or society, like you, what would you tell them?
The life of selfless service is a life of joy and meaning. However, you have to give up all selfishness. If only a little remains, it will eventually pollute and destroy your work and happiness.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“The secret to happiness is not to mind being unhappy.”
A simple revelation that made me physically laugh when I saw it.
Just try it — unhappiness disappears when we provide no resistance. When we are unhappy, we inevitably make others around us unhappy. However, when we are happy, we inevitably pass on the happiness to others.
Is there a person in the world, or in the US, with whom you would like to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we tag them. 🙂
Paul McCartney — Vegetarian advocate
And Ricky Gervais for his very obvious very sincere respect for all living beings
How can our readers follow you online?
Follow our social media on Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin and Twitter @theorangutanproject
This was very meaningful, thank you so much. We wish you only continued success on your great work!
Social Impact Heroes: Why & How Leif Cocks of The Orangutan Project Is Helping To Change Our World was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.