Putting The United Back Into The United States: Lee and Libby Of Prosch & Sandbox On The 5 Things That Each Of Us Can Do To Help Unite Our Polarized Society
An Interview With Jake Frankel
Start where the stakes are low
If you’re looking to have a political conversation with someone you disagree with, don’t start with someone you love. Try it first in situations where the emotional stakes are lower and the risk of damaging a relationship is minimal. These early conversations are practice, and it’s okay to make mistakes. The Sandbox App works pretty well because you get the opportunity to be matched with someone you don’t know, and don’t see eye to eye with, to have a virtual political conversation.
As part of our series about 5 Things That Each Of Us Can Do To Help Unite Our Polarized Society, I had the pleasure of interviewing Lee and Libby Of Prosch & Sandbox.
Lee Prosch is the Co-founder and CEO of Sandbox, where he combines his expertise in software engineering and product management with a mission to bridge America’s political divide. Prior to founding Sandbox, Lee served as CEO of Occam Technologies, a company focused on automated record matching, which was acquired by ESO Solutions in 2022.
Libby Prosch is the Co-founder and Progressive Content Editor at Sandbox. She studied Political Science, Philosophy and Spanish at Loyola University Chicago and has been deeply involved in local political campaigns and reproductive justice efforts. Outside of her work, Libby is a musician, jewelry maker, and frequent swimmer in Lake Michigan.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Before we dive into the main focus of our interview, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood backstory?
Libby Prosch: I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago in a close, tight-knit family. My parents (Lee is my Dad, if that wasn’t abundantly clear), always taught me to do as much good as I could for others, and over time, politics started to feel like a meaningful way to do that. I saw it as a real opportunity to help people and connect them with resources that could improve their lives. That belief is what led me to study political science and pursue a career in the field. It might sound a little idealistic, but I’ve always been an optimist.
Lee Prosch: The house I grew up in wasn’t especially political. We didn’t really talk about it. It wasn’t until I got older, maybe in high school or my early 20s, that I started to notice how strongly other people felt about politics. I didn’t have those same strong opinions, which made me curious. That curiosity led me to see the value in perspectives across the spectrum and why so many topics don’t have just one right answer. I think that’s what pulled me toward the center and got me interested in exploring how we talk about politics in the first place.
What or who inspired you to pursue your career? We’d love to hear the story.
Libby Prosch: In high school, I had a U.S. Government and Politics class taught by Mike Harper, who is just hilarious and brilliant. He made the class engaging for everyone, no matter where they stood politically. The school I went to leaned Conservative overall, but that class was pretty evenly split, and he managed to keep things respectful and fun. I already had an interest in politics and government, but that class really pushed me to pursue it more seriously.
Also, I have to mention my Dad. We’ve always had a shared interest in politics. We don’t always agree on every issue, but we care deeply about the same things. Over time, I realized that even if our approaches or policy views differ, the end goals are aligned. That understanding has shaped a lot of how I think about political conversations and solutions.
What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now? How do you think that might help people?
Libby Prosch Right now, we’re focused on Sandbox, which is an app that we created that pairs people who don’t see eye to eye on politics to help them understand what they’re missing.We know it sounds impossible, but users are doing it every day. Most of the time, they’re having calm, thoughtful conversations about tough issues like DEI, Gender, and Israel and Palestine. We’re seeing that even when they disagree, Sandboxers are mostly able to take each other seriously. In our last discussion, users rated each other’s responses as reasonable about 75 percent of the time. That kind of respectful engagement is rare right now.
What excites us most is that these conversations are mostly happening without people walking away or losing their cool. To participate in Sandbox, you have to be willing to engage with someone who may not think like you. A lot of people are drawn to that mission, but not everyone is ready to jump into a one-on-one dialogue.
So we’re also building a way for people to ease in. Instead of having a full conversation, users will be given the option to read a range of responses on a topic and rate how reasonable each one sounds. It will offer an even lower-stakes way to engage, and we hope it will help people build the confidence to join a conversation when they’re ready.
We’re always working on upcoming topics, and every other week we focus on current events. That schedule keeps things interesting and gives people space to reflect on what’s happening in the world right now.
None of us can achieve success without some help along the way. Was there a particular person who you feel gave you the most help or encouragement to be who you are today? Can you share a story about that?
Lee Prosch: I have a 93 year-old great uncle who is a Korean war veteran. Uncle Ray is a storyteller and a tinkerer. Spend two minutes in his presence and you know you’re with a good human being — a really good human being. I’ve learned a ton from him, including how to take people seriously.
Uncle Ray says very little about politics, but I realized early that we weren’t on the same side. I never asked about it because I was afraid my questions would sound cynical, the way questions do when you’re trying to sound like you take the other side seriously but you’re pretty sure the other guy has it wrong. It wasn’t worth the risk.
We’ve still never had a serious discussion of politics, and we probably never will. But, when I’m trying to figure out how to say something tricky to a Sandbox partner, I’m often thinking of Uncle Ray. Am I giving this person the same benefit of doubt I would give him?
Can you share the funniest or most interesting mistake that occurred to you in the course of your career? What lesson or take away did you learn from that?
Lee Prosch: I once tried to have a political conversation with one of the people I respect most, and it completely went off the rails. Instead of being curious about why he saw things differently, I freaked out.
It happened with my best friend, Chris. He was the Best Man at my wedding, and I was his. We had been out mountain biking, and afterward we were having lunch and a beer. At some point, he mentioned listening to Rush Limbaugh, and I just lost it. I don’t remember exactly what I said, but I know it wasn’t respectful. He shut down completely. The conversation ended, and that moment stuck with me. It still haunts me.
It took me years to realize how far out of line I was. It’s one thing to disagree with someone like Rush Limbaugh, but it’s something else to freak out on a friend. And because we started avoiding political conversations, I missed out. He had wisdom I could have learned from, and maybe I had something helpful to offer too. But that door stayed closed for a while because I didn’t know how to have the conversation in a better way.
Not a funny story, but it’s an important one to me.
Is there a particular book that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?
Libby Prosch: One book that had a big impact on both of us is Outraged by Kurt Gray. He’s a Moral Psychologist whose work has been incredibly instrumental in understanding why we disagree so strongly about politics and his book really shaped how we think about our work. It explores why we get so upset when we talk about politics and how those reactions are often rooted in our deep sense of what we see as harm.
He writes about how our ancestors used to face enormous physical threats like predators or disease. But now that we live in relatively safe societies, those intense emotions don’t just disappear. Instead, they get redirected toward things like politics. Politics feels high-stakes because it has the power to shape people’s lives, so we treat it like a threat even when no one is in immediate danger.
The book also breaks down Gray’s theory that political disagreement often comes down to harm. Most people are trying to protect the people they think are vulnerable and prevent damage to their community, but they come at it from different angles. That lens helped us better understand why conversations get so heated and how people can talk past each other without realizing it. It’s been a huge influence on how we approach dialogue through Sandbox.
Can you share your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Why does that resonate with you so much? Do you have a story about how that was relevant in your life or your work?
Libby Prosch: One that really sticks with me is something my Dad always said growing up, even if it annoyed me at the time. He used to say, “Nothing worth doing is easy.” He’d say it about chores, or homework, or anything I was resisting, and back then it drove me a little crazy.
But now that I’m older, I find myself coming back to it a lot, especially with the work we’re doing on Sandbox. Trying to encourage meaningful dialogue around political division is not easy. It takes patience, effort, and a lot of trial and error. But it feels worth doing every single day.
How do you define “Leadership”? Can you explain what you mean or give an example?
Libby Prosch: I think leadership comes down to being willing to take risks and fail for the purpose of creating something bigger than yourself. A good leader is someone who’s not afraid to try something new, even if it’s uncomfortable or even a little embarrassing, because they care about the outcome. I also think being a good listener is a key part of being a good leader. You have to be open to hearing other perspectives and letting that shape the direction you go.
Lee Prosch: I really agree with that. In my experience, if you’re clear on ‘why’ you’re doing something, the ‘how’ will come. Just get started.
Ok, thank you for all that. Now let’s move to the main focus of our interview. The polarization in our country has become so extreme that families have been torn apart. Erstwhile close friends have not spoken to each other because of strong partisan differences. This is likely a huge topic, but briefly, can you share your view on how this evolved to the boiling point that it’s at now?
Libby Prosch: Some level of political polarization is normal and even healthy. People are wired differently, they value different things, and that kind of balance can help a society function. But we’ve clearly passed the point where it’s constructive.
Social media plays a big role. Algorithms reward the loudest and most outrageous takes, so the most extreme voices often get the most attention. That can make it feel like everyone is more radical than they really are. What we end up seeing are the far ends of the spectrum, not the quieter, more moderate majority.
There’s research from the group More in Common that shows this “perception gap”. Their studies, like the Hidden Tribes report, describe what they call the “exhausted majority,” which makes up a large percentage of Americans. These are people who might care about politics but aren’t dug in ideologically and don’t feel represented by the extremes. The problem is that the extreme voices are the ones amplified most.
And when our elected officials can’t model compromise or basic cooperation, it sends a message. If leaders refuse to work together, it becomes harder for regular people to believe that we can.
Lee Prosch:
That illusion of division is powerful. The far left and right tend to dominate the conversation on social media and create this feeling that we’re more divided than we are. But in reality, a lot of people are more flexible than they seem and open to listening.
Like Libby said, it makes sense from an evolutionary perspective that people are wired to view the world differently. That’s not the issue. The issue is when the middle gets hollowed out and the only voices we hear are the ones shouting from the edges.
I have no pretensions about bridging the divide between politicians, or between partisan media outlets. But I’d love to discuss the divide that is occurring between families, co-workers, and friends. Do you feel comfortable sharing a story from your experience about how family or friends have become a bit alienated because of the partisan atmosphere?
Lee Prosch: This is a story about a close cousin of mine. He’s got strong opinions. Unproductive conversations about those opinions led to breaks with several people he cares about. I was almost one of them. He now refuses to discuss politics. This guy is one of my favorite people on the planet, so I always have him in the back of my mind when I think about what Sandbox needs to accomplish. I think about how I let him down in our early conversations, and I think about what it’s going to take to get him comfortable getting on.
Libby Prosch: Avoidance feels like the only option a lot of the time. Either you risk a blowout that damages the relationship, or you just don’t talk about it. But when you never bring up politics, it becomes easy to assume the worst about what the other person believes. You imagine they hold the most extreme version of an opposing view, and that creates even more distance.
We’ve both had conversations that went off the rails and learned from those experiences. Part of what inspired Sandbox is the belief that these conversations can happen, but people need the right structure and support. Most people aren’t as far apart as it seems. We just don’t always have the skills or setting to talk to each other in a way that feels safe and productive.
In your opinion, what can be done to bridge the divide that has occurred in families? Can you please share a story or example?
Libby Prosch: You can care deeply about someone and completely disagree with their politics. That can be hard to sit with, but their views do not negate everything that is good about them. People can believe things that are very different from what you believe and still be logical and decent.
When you approach people with curiosity instead of trying to change their mind, the conversation is more likely to be productive. And if you want to get better at those conversations, start outside of family or close friends. Practice with people where the emotional stakes are lower. These conversations take time and effort and they will not always go well, but that is part of the process.
Lee Prosch: I think the first step is getting really clear on what the goal is. If the goal is to understand, not to change someone’s mind, that sets the tone. That is easy to say and way harder to do. When Libby and I were first testing the ideas behind Sandbox, we had a lot of conversations where I said my goal was understanding, but I was still asking cynical questions. Or I would hear something and immediately start judging it in my head.
Questions like “how could you possibly think that” are very different from “why do you think that.” That mindset matters. I think most people are not taught how to have these kinds of conversations, especially with people they care about. I wasn’t either. It takes practice, and early conversations often go off the rails.
What finally helped was removing some of the pressure. Instead of coming up with my own questions, I started using simple statements that reflected a clear political position. Then I would ask the other person what they thought. That made things less personal and less risky. The first time I tried it with Libby, she said something like, “I have never thought of it that way.” I had a similar moment with a friend of mine who leans Conservative. That simple structure led to a more open conversation, and that was one of the first moments that led to what eventually became Sandbox.
How about the workplace, what can be done to bridge the partisan divide that has fractured relationships there? Can you please share a story or example?
Libby Prosch: I think a lot of the same rules apply in the workplace as in families. Political conversations can be important, but they probably should not start in high-stakes relationships. If you are not used to hearing people disagree with you, those early conversations are likely to be emotionally charged. It is much easier to build some resilience in lower-risk settings before bringing those conversations into work or family.
That being said, we talk about politics in the Sandbox office every day, and our team has a wide range of political opinions. So it isn’t far-fetched to think that it’s doable. But it is not always easy, and it felt especially scary at the beginning, because we were hearing each other say things that we really did not agree with, and we weren’t used to that. It felt really jarring and offensive at first.. And when you’re talking to a coworker or boss, someone you work with every day, it adds pressure and risk to the interaction.
Lee Prosch: Exactly. We see very thoughtful, highly capable people freak out the first time they encounter a serious opposing viewpoint. In other settings, that reaction can shut the conversation down before it even begins. It is not because they are unreasonable. It is because our intuitions are so strong and leave very little room for ambiguity.
So our advice is to avoid using work or family as the training ground for your first few political conversations. That is where the stakes are highest. Instead, practice in a space where the consequences are more contained. When people use Sandbox, they often go in expecting conflict but end up surprised by how possible it is to talk across differences. Once you build that skill and have a few productive conversations under your belt, it becomes a lot easier to talk with coworkers or relatives without things going off the rails.
I think one of the causes of our divide comes from the fact that many of us see a political affiliation as the primary way to self-identify. But of course, there are many other ways to self-identify. What do you think can be done to address this?
Libby Prosch: Political identity is just one part of who someone is. If you’re trying to bridge a divide between you and someone you disagree with politically, find something you have in common that has nothing to do with politics. Maybe you root for the same sports team, love the same music, or grew up in the same area. Those shared identities remind us that there’s more to a person than their politics. And connecting on those fronts can make political conversations a lot easier.
Much ink has been spilled about how social media companies and partisan media companies continue to make money off creating a split in our society. Sadly the cat is out of the bag and at least in the near term there is no turning back. Social media and partisan media have a vested interest in maintaining the divide, but as individuals none of us benefit by continuing this conflict. What can we do moving forward to not let social media divide us?
Libby Prosch: It’s true. Most traditional social media platforms are not built for productive political dialogue. Their algorithms reward outrage and extreme takes, which only deepens the divide. and reinforce political identity as the main lens people see through.
Those platforms are better suited for keeping up with friends and sharing lighter moments. If you’re looking to have real political conversations or get exposed to opposing viewpoints, we believe you need a different kind of space. That’s what we’re trying to create with Sandbox. It lets people have conversations where the goal isn’t to win or dunk on someone, but to actually hear another point of view. Once you do that a few times, you start to understand that the “other side” is not just one type of person with one way of thinking. There’s more nuance than you might expect.
Lee Prosch: A great first step is switching up your news sources. One outlet we really like is Tangle. It’s a newsletter that lays out how both the left and the right are viewing a particular issue. It gives you a balanced summary without trying to tell you what to think. That kind of perspective helps you understand not just the facts, but how different people are interpreting them, and why.
Can you please share your “5 Steps That Each Of Us Can Take To Proactively Help Unite Our Country”.
1. Start where the stakes are low
If you’re looking to have a political conversation with someone you disagree with, don’t start with someone you love. Try it first in situations where the emotional stakes are lower and the risk of damaging a relationship is minimal. These early conversations are practice, and it’s okay to make mistakes. The Sandbox App works pretty well because you get the opportunity to be matched with someone you don’t know, and don’t see eye to eye with, to have a virtual political conversation.
Example: Sandbox users tend to be quite understanding, making the stakes low to participate in a conversation. The most severe rating your partner can give your explanation is “That’s a dangerous idea.” Sandboxers give out that rating infrequently, but even when Sandboxers rate their partners’ explanations as “dangerous,” they give them an average star rating of 3.8/5. The average star rating overall is 4.2.
2. Be curious about what you might be missing
Be an anthropologist. You do not need to abandon your views, but you should assume there may be something you have not considered. Curiosity opens the door to understanding and keeps the conversation from becoming combative.
Example: I was having drinks with a friend (Tony) prior to the 2016 election. We struck up a conversation with an undecided voter (they do actually exist) that was leaning toward Trump. Tony is a lefty, but he asked her one sincere question after another without a hint of sarcasm. I think we both learned a lot from her, and I think it was probably useful to her, too. It was one of the top ten coolest things I’ve ever seen. –Lee
3. Speak from your own perspective.
People respond more openly when you speak from your own experience. Instead of stating your beliefs as facts, share how you arrived at them or how an issue has affected you or someone you care about. This can be as simple as using “I’ language. For example, “I think…” or “My experience is…”
Example: L I’ve noticed that speaking in the first person tends to be far more effective in getting your point across. This tends to create more empathy and less defensiveness. Your partner may disagree with your opinion, but it’s much harder for them to argue with your lived experience. — Libby
4. Slow the conversation down
Face-to-face conversations escalate quickly. Many times, both parties are listening to respond, not to understand. Since you have less time to process, you’re more likely to say things you regret. You’re also far more likely to overreact to what the other person says.
Example: When we were first testing the ideas that would become Sandbox, we realized that conversations tended to be a lot more productive when people had time to formulate their responses, rather than responding in real time, so Sandbox users get time to think about what they want to say and how they want to say it
5. Expect some blisters.
We wish there was some secret to making political conversations easy, but the truth is that you have to put in some work. Some conversations are going to feel tough, especially at the beginning. You will likely have partners who overreact, and you probably will too. But the more you do it, the easier it gets. We promise it’s worth it.
Example: There doesn’t seem to be a substitute for unfortunate freakouts and overreactions at first. What we see time and time again is that people bounce back and establish calluses — giving them a little more control and thicker skin for next time.
Simply put, is there anything else we can do to ‘just be nicer to each other’?
Libby: Talk to people you disagree with, but do it to understand, not to win. I can’t think of a better place to do that than Sandbox.
Lee: Please join us on Sandbox!
We are going through a rough period now. Are you optimistic that this issue can eventually be resolved? Can you explain?
Lee Prosch: I’m very optimistic that this will improve and we have a lot of proof for it in the results of Sandbox conversations. As I think we’ve already said, the overwhelming result of most Sandbox conversations is incredibly productive. More than 75 percent of the time, people who disagree on a particular topic, when paired up and discuss it in this structured way that we’ve been describing, have positive feedback about what their partners say.
Libby Prosch: I’m optimistic as well. People are putting in the work, fighting cynicism, and enjoying it too. Extreme political division can feel like such an unsolvable issue, but knowing that people are willing to take the time to talk to other people and hear new perspectives makes me incredibly optimistic.
If you could tell young people one thing about why they should consider making a positive impact on our society, like you, what would you tell them?
Libby Prosch: Do something you care about, and work hard at it. It makes work feel a lot less like a chore. Also, try and keep in mind that you can’t solve problems without talking to people. Many people will surprise you. It can be genuinely enjoyable to talk to people who don’t see things the same way.
Lee Prosch: Just a little bit of progress on extreme political division unlocks so much opportunity in the world. I think you’d have a hard time describing a bigger impact than people getting better at talking to people they disagree with and being able to see the world from their perspective. It might sound quaint, but really what you’re after is seeing what they care about and finding some value in it. It’s hard to be cynical if you understand what people care about. At the end of the day, people have good reasons for believing what they believe. You can either be cynical and assume you’re the only reasonable one, or you can assume you might be missing something. When people do the work here, nearly anything is possible, and it’s not that hard.
Is there a person in the world, or in the US, with whom you would like to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we tag them. 🙂
Libby Prosch: I have to say Dolly Parton. First of all, she’s such an incredible musician. Plus, I think she is an anomaly in the way she has handled herself publicly. She is revered by so many demographics. You can tell that she’s genuine in everything she does. Even though she has mostly avoided talking about her own political beliefs publicly, you can tell what is important to her and what her values are, and it’s kind of impossible not to love her.
Lee Prosch: Mine is Sam Harris. I think a lot of people don’t know him, but he is a neuroscientist and philosopher. He is pretty well known for his books and his podcast. I think Sam is such a clear thinker and does a really good job breaking down what people think and where they stand. For example, he is pretty left-leaning, so it’s not surprising that he would be against Trump, but he can give President Trump credit where it is due. He can also be incredibly sharp with his criticism. I think he calls balls and strikes in a way I am completely incapable of. So Sam Harris would be my choice.
How can our readers follow you online?
Libby Prosch: You can follow us online on Instagram at sandbox.ideas and on Facebook at Sandbox App. You can also check out our website at sandbox.app. Most importantly, you can download the app from the App Store here, the Google Play Store here or by searching “Sandbox Politics.”
This was very meaningful, and thank you so much for the time you spent on this interview. We wish you only continued success on your great work!
Thank you so much for having us! Same to you.
Putting The United Back Into The United States: Lee and Libby Of Prosch & Sandbox On The 5 Things… was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.