Matthew Kincaid of Overcoming Racism: 5 Steps We Must Take To Truly Create An Inclusive, Representative, and Equitable Society
An Interview With Tyler Gallagher
The first step is to engage your staff in intensive anti-racism professional development. It’s critically important that all staff have an understanding of systems of power, privilege and oppression, and how those systems and structures impact not only the way that we interact with one another, but also our clients and stakeholders, which affects the ways we operate our organizations. This intensive training will create the will, the skill and the intention necessary to drive these priorities to benefit and support your organization.
As part of our series about ‘5 Steps We Must Take To Truly Create An Inclusive, Representative, and Equitable Society’ I had the pleasure to interview Matthew Kincaid.
Matthew Kincaid is founder and CEO of Overcoming Racism, a national organization that provides workshop intensives, leadership and board coaching and consultations around anti-racism and equity.
Made up of former public school educators and administrators, Overcoming Racism serves K-12 and collegiate education, nonprofits and businesses including the NBA, NYC Department of Education, Princeton University, Turnaround Arts for the Kennedy Center, Red Bull and others. Overcoming Racism has been featured in the Washington Post, Mashable, GOOD magazine and AFROpunk.
Kincaid is currently co-chair of the Truth and Reconciliation Committee for the Human Relations Commission serving the city of New Orleans and an Amaphiko Social Entrepreneurship Fellow. In 2018, he was recognized as one of “100 Visionary Leaders” for Real Leaders Magazine and received the U.S. Small Business Administration’s “Young Entrepreneur of the Year Award” for the state of Louisiana. In 2019, Kincaid was recognized as a Gambit’s 40 under 40 recipient.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to ‘get to know you’. Can you tell us a bit about how you grew up?
I grew up in St. Louis, Missouri in a predominantly black community but I attended predominantly white schools for the majority of my life. Navigating the nuances between my community and schools is where I began to witness the vastness of racial disparities first hand. When I was fourteen I attended a youth leadership program called “Anytown.” At Anytown we learned about issues of oppression and social injustice from an intersectional lens. Anytown gave me an academic understanding of the circumstances surrounding my lived experiences. I started leading anti-racism intensives shortly after that and have been leading anti-racism work ever since.
Is there a particular book that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?
It is challenging to pick just one text but if I had to choose one I would probably say James Baldwin’s “The Fire Next Time,” most specifically the letter James Baldwin writes to his nephew in My Dungeon Shook. In this piece Baldwin holds a delicate balance between the innocence of black children and the world that they are inevitably forced to navigate. This letter of love, guidance, assurance and warning helped to frame my own experiences as a Black man in America. I believe this resonated with me because it is a bold and daring text telling Black youth to live boldly and freely, to dare to love yourself even in the midst of persistent structural inequality.
Do you have a favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Do you have a story about how that was relevant in your life or your work?
Not one in particular. There is a quote however that we begin each of our intensives with by Lila Watson, which goes, “If you have come to help me, you are wasting your time. If you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine, then let us walk together.” We begin our workshops with this quote because our work to end white supremacy isn’t just about enfranchising people of color; it is about building a society that works for everybody.
How do you define “Leadership”? Can you explain what you mean or give an example?
I believe that leadership comes in many forms. I have worked in organizations long enough to know that leadership cannot be defined by a person’s position on an organizational chart. The reality is that in most organizations many of the most effective leaders don’t hold the fanciest of titles. I think leadership is about having and being able to execute a vision. I believe it is about enhancing the strengths and agency of others and I think leadership means knowing when to lead from the front and knowing when to empower others to lead. A group of people will always be smarter than an individual, regardless of how intelligent that individual might be. In this way if a leader doesn’t know how to share power and decision-making they aren’t a leader as I define it.
In my work, I often talk about how to release and relieve stress. As a busy leader, what do you do to prepare your mind and body before a stressful or high stakes meeting, talk, or decision? Can you share a story or some examples?
Stress relief is a growth area of mine so I don’t want to pretend that I have this all figured out. Teaching about systemic racism is hard and takes a significant toll on one’s mental health. I think for me stress management is about finding activities that take me away from my day-to-day work. Whether that is spending time with friends or family, working out, reading or my personal favorite, playing video games all of these things help to reset and relieve stress.
Ok, thank you for all that. Now let’s move to the main focus of our interview. The United States is currently facing a very important self-reckoning about race, diversity, equality and inclusion. This is of course a huge topic. But briefly, can you share your view on how this crisis inexorably evolved to the boiling point that it’s at now?
I think these issues have always been at a boiling point. Communities of color have been boiling for centuries. It didn’t take a pandemic to expose systemic inequality in communities that have been dealing with the most visceral effects of racism for generations. Whether they be disparities in housing, employment, access to quality healthcare or schooling, incarceration or police violence. Communities of color have been at a boiling point. If anything changed it seems that a video of a black man being choked for close to 10 minutes until the life left his body spoke to the consciousness of white Americans and caused some of them to desire to listen, learn and better understand what racism is and how it functions. I think last summer was an awakening of sorts for some white Americans who want to fight to dismantle systemic oppression. It must also be stated that it was an awakening for white supremacists who seek to keep these systems in place. We have seen some policy change as a result of the Black Lives Matter movement, especially around policing, over the past year. We have also seen policy change, most notably in voting access and education that directly targets hard fought for racial progress.
Can you tell our readers a bit about your experience working with initiatives to promote Diversity and Inclusion? Can you share a story with us?
My experiences have been mostly positive. Once people get into this work they start to realize that it isn’t as scary as it is made out to be. Our organization focuses on systems level change. We work to change hearts and minds but only as a means to shift policy that exists within institutions. We believe that people are far more likely to adapt to the culture of the institutions that they exist in, than institutions are to adapt to the people within them. Once policies change in organizations that create and maintain disparities, these organizations begin to see just how much of an asset being a diverse, equitable and inclusive organization is. It is challenging to share just one story, but the experience of watching people and institutions change is a rewarding one. Watching people come to the realization that we all have something to fight for in this work and seeing people work together across racial differences to achieve anti-racist outcomes provides hope that we can reimagine our society through a lens that doesn’t require groups of people being treated with contempt because of the social groups that they belong in.
This may be obvious to you, but it will be helpful to spell this out. Can you articulate to our readers a few reasons why it is so important for a business or organization to have a diverse executive team?
Besides the clear moral arguments for why upholding racist practices in businesses that lead to racial disparities are wrong, anti-racism is simply just good business practice. We are living in a growingly diverse country in which soon the majority of the workforce will be people of color and in the near future a majority of the people in this country will be people of color. Organizations that embrace diversity equity and inclusion ensure that they are building diverse and collaborative work forces that can engage with their diverse clientbase better, that can problem solve more effectively and that are more innovative.
Ok. Here is the main question of our discussion. You are an influential business leader. Can you please share your “5 Steps We Must Take To Truly Create An Inclusive, Representative, and Equitable Society”. Kindly share a story or example for each.
Sure!
- The first step is to engage your staff in intensive anti-racism professional development. It’s critically important that all staff have an understanding of systems of power, privilege and oppression, and how those systems and structures impact not only the way that we interact with one another, but also our clients and stakeholders, which affects the ways we operate our organizations. This intensive training will create the will, the skill and the intention necessary to drive these priorities to benefit and support your organization.
- Secondly, ensure that diversity, equity, inclusion and justice initiatives are not just moral priorities, but they’re also structural priorities. It’s great that we see anti-racism as a moral calling, we should also understand that more diverse, inclusive and equitable organizations are better at problem solving, more innovative and they often engage with their client base better. A recent McKinsey study, Diversity Wins: How Inclusion Matters, says that they often have a higher bottom line as well. They also oftentimes have a higher bottom line and outperform the marketplace. When we ensure that these are both moral and structural, we ensure that these priorities are long-term and will continue in our organizations.
- The third to-do is making sure that we are thinking about shifting systems, and not just people. People are far more likely to adapt to the culture of the institutions than the institutions are to adapt to the people within them. Often we believe that if we just get a group of people or a critical mass of diversity in a room, then maybe racism will cease to exist. The reality is, in order to dismantle systemic racism, we have to do that with intention by changing policy. By being able to envision and actualize anti-racist policy, you ensure that it will set a path forward for your staff to follow.
- Engage in an equity audit in your organization. It’s critically important to know where you start to know where you’re going. As to not confuse motion with action, we need to operate with thought and intention. Having a database on the front-end helps us know where we are to know where we’re going with our priorities.
- And finally, when you have assessed your priorities and determined strategies, share these responsibilities across a diverse group of stakeholders. It’s common for people in organizations to have a dual burden of both existing in and experiencing racism and othering, while also having the burden to dismantle those structures within their spaces. It’s critically important that we bring a diverse group of stakeholders together to the table to lead this work forward, to make sure that we’re compensating people of color if we ask them to engage in this work, and to also ensure that this work is not just an add-on or afterthought. Instead, it’s part and parcel to all of the structures that we lead, think about and design daily.
We are going through a rough period now. Are you optimistic that this issue can eventually be resolved? Can you explain?
Paulo Friere, the author of the Pedagogy of the Oppressed, says “It is imperative that we maintain hope even when the harshness of reality suggests otherwise.” I don’t have the luxury to lose hope because I know what this system is doing to the people and communities that I love. I know that the only way we change these systems is by fighting them and so that is what I will do until I either cease to exist or the systems cease to exist. I stay optimistic because I don’t entertain the possibility of losing this battle because I know what is at stake.
Is there a person in the world, or in the US, with whom you would like to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we tag them. 🙂
There are so many but if I had to pick one, probably Angela Davis. Her activism has stood the test of time, she has been fighting for abolition for much longer, and at much greater stakes than advocates of abolition now and she models intersectional leadership. She is an idol for sure.
How can our readers follow you online?
Follow us on Instagram at @overcomingracism or online at www.overcomingracism.com.
This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for joining us!
Matthew Kincaid of Overcoming Racism: 5 Steps We Must Take To Truly Create An Inclusive… was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.