Healing A Broken Mental Health System: Dr Kirk Schneider On 5 Things That Can Be Done To Fix Our Broken Mental Health System
An Interview With Stephanie Greer
Valuing Relational In-depth Approaches: I believe it’s necessary to focus on relational, in-depth therapeutic approaches, both within our general culture and professional practices. Psychotherapies such as relational psychoanalysis and existential-humanistic therapy deserve greater recognition and utilization.
The current state of the mental health system is a conversation that echoes in the halls of policy-making, the corners of social advocacy, and within the private struggles of individuals and families. As we continue to witness an unprecedented need for robust mental health support, the shortcomings of the existing system become more glaring. It is within this backdrop that we seek the insight of those who are at the forefront of behavioral health. In this interview series, we are talking to behavioral health leaders, policymakers, mental health practitioners, advocates, and reformers to share their perspectives on healing our broken mental health system. As a part of this interview series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. Kirk Schneider.
Kirk J. Schneider, Ph.D. is a licensed psychologist, leading spokesperson for contemporary existential-humanistic and existential-integrative psychology, and fellow of five divisions of the American Psychological Association. He is an adjunct faculty at Saybrook University and Columbia University, president of the Existential-Humanistic Institute (EHI), and the past editor of the Journal of Humanistic Psychology. Dr. Schneider has authored or coauthored twelve books, including The Paradoxical Self, Horror and the Holy, Existential-Integrative Psychotherapy, Awakening to Awe, and, most recently, Life-Enhancing Anxiety: Key to a Sane World.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series. Before we start, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your background and your childhood backstory?
I was introduced to psychology around the age of two and a half when my seven-year-old brother passed away due to pneumonia complications. This event shattered my world, exposing me to anxiety, grief, and fear. However, it also opened my mind to possibilities and deeper thoughts about life.
My father, a humanistic educator, strongly believed in humanistic psychology (which explores the questions “What does it mean to be fully, experientially human? And how does that understanding apply to the vital and fulfilled life?”), which he applied in his classes and as a high school principal. My mother, a radio and television spokesperson with a psychological mindset, brought me to a child analyst after my brother’s death. This turned out to be a pivotal moment in my development.
Meeting with a psychoanalyst at such a young age helped me gradually move from a place of terror and overwhelm to intrigue and wonder. These life experiences sparked my interest in psychology, philosophy, and writing. Fifteen years later, I’d declare my major in psychology and minor in philosophy during my first semester at Ohio University.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
One of my favorite writers is Ernest Becker, the Pulitzer Prize-winning author of “The Denial of Death.” On his deathbed, Becker responded to a question about dying at the young age of 49.
He expressed (and I am paraphrasing), I give myself over when there’s nothing left to the tremendous creative energies of the cosmos, to be used for purposes we don’t know. And even if I may feel misused in some way, that participation in the beyond is what gives me solace.
I find this incredibly inspiring. The quote depicts someone who lived life to the fullest, and then chose to surrender when there was nothing more to hold on to. It also reflects a profound openness to the mystery of existence and the engagement in a force much larger than oneself. The combination of living a rich and meaningful life while being receptive to the vastness of participating in something greater is truly inspiring.
Let’s now shift to the main part of our discussion. It is often said that “the mental health system in America is broken”. What does that statement mean to you? From your perspective what is “broken” today?
I believe our mental health system (like many other systems in our society) relies excessively on quick-fix methods for living. We expect the same efficiency of our mental health as we do with modern technology.
Unfortunately, our society is increasingly inclined towards speed, immediate outcomes, and superficial remedies to complex situations. This shift is partly driven by the seduction of high-tech solutions providing instant results and seemingly simple answers. There is a concern that we are not just mimicking machines, but are also at risk of becoming machines ourselves. This is the ultimate nightmare for a rich and engaging human life.
Our dependence on pharmaceutical drugs is also a contributing factor, along with the profit-driven model dominating the mental health industry. This pressure compels providers to work hastily, focusing on measurable, band-aid solutions. The emphasis is often on addressing symptoms — like stress, substance abuse, or sleeping problems — rather than taking the time to thoroughly understand the core issue or meaningfully explore the role that purpose plays in a patient’s life.
Instead, when we choose to look at our challenges with a sense of awe and exploration, we’re able to create optimal — and sustainable — mental vitality.
What about any bright spots? Do you think there are any elements that we get right in today’s world that we wouldn’t want to reverse unintentionally?
Let me be clear: while I want us to focus on the root of a mental health issue, I acknowledge the benefits of symptom alleviation. This relief allows individuals to gain a foothold in life and stabilize themselves when handling urgent or fragile circumstances.
I don’t discount the importance of medications and structured behavioral therapy for short-term, critical situations.
However, it’s not a sustainable answer to the entire mental health system.
This is where exploratory therapy comes into play. Exploratory therapy is when a therapist and client engage in a person-to-person relationship, providing necessary safety for the patient to delve deeper into what truly matters to them. This exploration extends to understanding the profound aspects of their lives and figuring out how to respond to these deep-seated matters.
This mental health space is incredibly conducive to exploration. Fortunately, there are still places where individuals can establish what I call “emotionally restorative relationships.” Typically, these relationships involve longer-term and in-depth therapeutic connections. However, it’s crucial to devise ways to make these relationships more affordable and accessible to a broader spectrum of people, as the current trend often excludes those outside the upper class.
In your opinion, what are the 5 most impactful things that could help heal the broken mental health system? These could be on any level including training, workforce, policy, culture, equity etc.
1. Mass Mobilization of Practitioners: A large-scale group of practitioners — which I refer to as a National Corps of Mental Health Providers — that would operate similarly to the Peace Corps. These providers would allocate a fraction of their time each week to offer in-depth, emotionally restorative relationships, especially to underserved communities across the nation. The goal is to help individuals connect with the profound aspects of their lives, making therapy more affordable and accessible. While this could function as a voluntary program, the ideal scenario involves subsidies from private donors, corporations, and government agencies that value in-depth therapeutic approaches. This multifaceted support would reduce existing barriers while addressing the long-term sustainability of mental health.
2. Universal Health Care that Prioritizes Emotional Well-being: Next, I advocate for universal health care that places a significant emphasis on longer-term, emotionally restorative relationships within the realm of mental health and psychotherapy. This approach would prioritize allocating more time for medical doctors and psychotherapists to engage with their patients. The focus would be on establishing fundamental facilitative conditions. This might include forming alliances, demonstrating empathy, fostering genuine relationships, collaborating with patients, and aiding them in discovering a sense of meaning in their lives.
3. Training Emphasis on Relational Dimensions: I believe that the training psychotherapists go through should focus on highlighting the relational aspects of therapy, which research indicates are crucial for effective psychotherapy. By relational dimensions of therapy, I mean the aspects of therapy that emphasize therapeutic presence, support, empathy, genuineness, collaboration, and other relationship factors that help people explore and pursue what deeply matters about their lives. These qualities are closely linked to effective therapy, and I believe we should place greater emphasis on them, recognizing that while techniques are important, they alone are far from sufficient. In my opinion, the primary aspect of training should involve helping trainees develop a heightened presence — both within themselves and with their patients. This means being attuned to and understanding the significant elements between the therapist and the patient, as well as within the patient and therapist individually.
4. Valuing Relational In-depth Approaches: I believe it’s necessary to focus on relational, in-depth therapeutic approaches, both within our general culture and professional practices. Psychotherapies such as relational psychoanalysis and existential-humanistic therapy deserve greater recognition and utilization.
5. Humanistic Priorities in Leadership and Governance: We must establish more human-centered priorities within leadership and governance. This means placing greater emphasis on the mental and physical well-being of individuals, rather than solely prioritizing profit margins. I propose an approach (akin to some Nordic countries) that combines capitalism with a strong social consciousness and robust social support systems. This alignment fosters a more holistic perspective that values the welfare of individuals, while still considering economic outcomes.
If all of the items on your list were magically implemented tomorrow what change might we see in the world? What are the signs (big and small) that would show us that the system is being healed?
If these measures were implemented, we would witness a reduction in both domestic and global conflicts. This means less war, violence, and prejudice, and it would decrease our society’s political and cultural polarization.
We would also see improvements in intimate relationships, communities, workplaces, child-rearing, and religious or spiritual settings, as well as within governmental contexts. Increased engagement implies individuals being more present to themselves and others — guided by curiosity and discovery — rather than fear.
This shift would foster greater empathy and richer, more fulfilling life experiences. People would be more open to wonder and discovery, reducing anxieties about living. This openness extends to embracing nature, creativity, and bridge-building dialogues between people with opposing viewpoints. The envisioned result is characterized by humility, wonder, and a sense of adventure toward living a fuller, more holistic, and mutually supportive life.
What is a project you or others are working on today that gives you hope? How can our readers learn more about this work?
I’ve been involved in several projects that give me hope. One of them is the Experiential Democracy Dialogue. It’s a structured, one-on-one conversation aimed at humanizing interactions between individuals from differing cultural backgrounds or political perspectives. I’ve dedicated nearly two decades to refining this approach, drawing inspiration from my experience as a trained moderator for Braver Angels — a grassroots conflict mediation movement that brings together self-identified liberals and conservatives in living room-style discussions around the United States.
My approach emphasizes intimate contact, employing principles from depth psychotherapy (a holistic approach that recognizes implicit or subconscious elements of human experience as central to addressing many psychological struggles; includes but is not exhausted by psychoanalytic psychotherapy, existential-humanistic psychotherapy, and other forms of exploratory therapy concerned with helping people pursue what deeply matters about their personal and collective lives) to help individuals become more present to themselves and others. It aims to reduce intimidation by differences — fostering curiosity and discovery, rather than presumptions and stereotypes.
I also manage a YouTube channel called The Core of Depth Healers, with the assistance of Tyler Gamlen, a graduate student from Saybrook University. This serves as a resource for mental health practitioners, featuring video samples of experts in depth psychotherapy and other related forms of practices that are (typically) relationship-centered and longer-term therapies.
The channel showcases examples of bridge-building dialogues, including my work applying the Experiential Democracy Dialogue to topics like racism, Donald Trump’s presidency, and political differences. Leaders of different organizations who apply depth principles to their organizations are also featured. The channel encompasses psychoanalytic and humanistic-oriented therapists and researchers, addressing issues like gun violence and pandemic-related stresses.
I’m also actively writing about these visions. My recent book, Life-Enhancing Anxiety: A Guide to a Sane World, explores the concept of “life-enhancing” anxiety as a tool to live on the edge of wonder and discovery, rather than in a state of terror, overwhelm, or paralysis. I’ve applied these ideas to various settings — including child-rearing, education, work, religion, and government — which is demonstrated in books like The Polarized Mind and Awakening to Awe: Personal Stories of Profound Transformation.
How do you see technology shaping the future of mental health care and its accessibility?
First of all, we must address technology addiction. Individuals need to regain control over technology, instead of allowing it to control them. People are finding it increasingly difficult to go without their phones, even for short periods. This alone inhibits our ability to reflect on life priorities and what truly matters.
That being said, technology can be a valuable tool if used judiciously. Platforms like ChatGPT or Alexa can help people enhance their knowledge, leading to the exploration of relevant questions and values through technology. The key is to utilize these tools to promote fuller and richer lives.
Technology can also contribute to creativity by fostering imagination, play, and substantive human relationships. It can connect communities globally, bringing people closer together and promoting positive interactions. This interconnectedness can be beneficial on multiple levels.
In your view, how do social factors like poverty, education, and culture affect mental health care and its effectiveness?
These factors play immense roles in influencing mental well-being. The interconnected issues of poverty, education, and culture contribute to significant inequities, creating disparate starting points that are challenging to rectify later on. These challenges are intertwined with the problems of bigotry, racism, and prejudice. Furthermore, these factors hinder the development of a solid, growth-oriented sense of self, as individuals often find themselves struggling to survive, let alone thrive.
Creating a socio-economic system that reduces stress, provides better education, and fosters an emotionally supportive culture is crucial. This approach shifts the focus away from desperation, creating a more secure environment that allows individuals to pursue meaningful lives.
In light of the growing mental health crisis among young people, what innovative approaches or interventions have proven most successful for children and adolescents?
Initiatives that foster creativity, imagination, and increased exposure to the arts and humanities have been crucial in addressing the growing mental health crisis among young people. Unfortunately, there has been a notable decline in emphasis on these areas over the past 50 years, which I believe has contributed to a lack of critical thinking skills and empathy in the younger generation. This deficiency hampers the ability to navigate complex cultural and political issues, underscoring the urgent need for programs that reinstate a focus on the arts and humanities.
By restoring emphasis on the arts and humanities, we can empower youth to thoughtfully engage with the complexities of the world around them. Ultimately, these efforts aim to help young individuals discover a sense of purpose and meaning that is neither rigid nor oppressive. Instead, having critical thinking skills and empathy encourages a spirit of inquiry and dialogue, which can greatly help address the mental health crisis, get folks out of their silos, and support the holistic development of the younger generation.
We are very blessed that some very prominent names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them. 🙂
Although he has passed on, I would have been honored to speak with the author of The Denial of Death, Ernest Becker, because he had such penetrating insight into human motivation and yearning, and there is a lot to learn about how he arrived at such insights. I believe he achieved profound wisdom about the dying process when he was on his deathbed at the tragically young age of 49.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
You may keep up with what I am working on by connecting with me on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/kirk-schneider-a526a661/.
Thank you for your time and thoughtful answers. I know many people will gain so much from hearing this.
About The Interviewer: Stephanie Greer, PhD is the Co-founder and CEO of Akin Mental Health — a company dedicated to guiding families on their journey supporting a loved one with mental health challenges like bipolar disorder, schizophrenia and severe depression. Stephanie is passionate about this topic from her own personal experience growing up with a mother who struggled with bipolar 1 disorder and found a path forward to overcome the obstacles and live well. Stephanie’s professional experience includes a doctorate in neuroscience as well as design research roles at Hopelab and Apple. Stephanie brings this personal passion together with her world-class science and technology background to support families across the US in their personal journeys supporting loved ones with mental illness. To learn more about Akin Mental Health and join our community, visit us at akinmh.com.
Healing A Broken Mental Health System: Dr Kirk Schneider On 5 Things That Can Be Done To Fix Our… was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.