Happiness and Joy During Turbulent Times: Author SC Perot On How To Live With Joie De Vivre, Even When It Feels Like The Whole World Is Pulling You Down
…Start early. I am a firm believer that integrating joy into your morning routine primes you for a joy-filled day. What would happen if you chose to do something mundane with ridiculous joy? If you made your morning commute your highlight of the day? If you decided that you will brush your teeth to the same upbeat song each morning for a week? For me, I love paying close attention to my dog’s excitement when I feed him breakfast. I sing a silly little breakfast song, he wags his tail, and I take a moment to remember that it’s my favorite chore. It might not guarantee a joy-filled day but I’ve never once regretted trying…
It sometimes feels like it is so hard to avoid feeling down or depressed these days. Between the sad news coming from world headlines, the impact of the ongoing pandemic, and the constant negative messages popping up on social and traditional media, it sometimes feels like the entire world is pulling you down. What do you do to feel happiness and joy during these troubled and turbulent times? In this interview series called “Finding Happiness and Joy During Turbulent Times” we are talking to experts, authors, and mental health professionals who share lessons from their research or experience about “How To Find Happiness and Joy During Troubled & Turbulent Times”.
As a part of this series, I had the pleasure of interviewing SC Perot.
Sarah Catherine “SC” Perot was born and raised in Dallas, Texas. She is a proud graduate of Vanderbilt University and Stanford Law School, where she earned a Juris Doctor degree. After practicing law, she pivoted during the pandemic to follow a longtime desire to teach. She is presently an Adjunct Faculty member at her alma mater, Vanderbilt University, where she teaches in the Human and Organizational Development department. The running through line of her varied career and life is a steadfast love for people and storytelling. “Styles of Joy” is SC’s first book. Her passion for living JOY out loud is contagious, intriguing, and resonates in every facet of her life. SC’s other passions include cooking, live music, art, and design, traveling and writing. She lives in Nashville, Tennessee with her four-legged sidekick, Ranger.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Before we dive into the main focus of our interview, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood backstory?
I grew up in Dallas, Texas and England with my three siblings and seemingly countless cousins. Having a large, bustling family was a major part of my upbringing–constantly together cooking up new adventures and fun. We were privileged to all grow up relatively close to each other in Texas and I wouldn’t trade those memories for the world. I’d say my childhood was equal parts normal and abnormal. Church every Sunday and regular family dinners balanced out dynamics associated with other elements like my grandfather’s presidential campaigns.
The other day I found an “About the Author” interview from a 1997 school project in which I–the six year-old “author” — described myself as having “reading mania.” Per this adorable “interview” (loose term), I also loved animals, hugs, reading, writing, the Dallas Mavericks, and my birthday. So I suppose not much has changed on that front.
One particular element of this childhood “interview” made me laugh out loud. My younger self apparently had aspirations to be a half-time performer for the Dallas Mavericks. I guess I still have time to figure out unicycling while juggling, trick shots, or the like. But if I can’t pull those off, I hope little me would still be proud to have Styles of Joy out in the world. (She would probably point me toward her 1997 crayon-illustrated book, snark that she was already an author, and tell me to go practice my novelty act post-haste.)
What or who inspired you to pursue your career? We’d love to hear the story.
As a former straight-laced corporate attorney and rule follower, nobody is more surprised by the following sentence than I am: but for Harry Styles, I would not be an author. I walked a straight path for the first 31 years of my life: college to law school to practicing law, dating to marriage to buying the house and dogs. Next on the list, one might guess, was babies. But instead, it was a pandemic, career pivot, and devastating divorce. In the thick of grief, I began going on long walks around the Town Lake Trail in Austin, Texas to process my intense upheaval. I typed “Good Energy” in the Spotify search bar as a cry for help to the algorithm because what I desperately needed was, well, good energy. Spotify fed me a playlist with that exact title, which is how I first began listening to Harry Styles’s music; I previously never had. I’m of the age where if you say “boyband,” I say “NSYNC” or “Backstreet Boys”…not One Direction. Harry’s third album Harry’s House, debuted two days after I told my then-husband I wanted a divorce; the new album was sprinkled throughout that Good Energy playlist. His upbeat songs became a huge source of joy for me in my darkest hour. Divorce can be pretty quiet; I filled my house with music. Fast forward and over the next ten months, I threw the rulebook out the window and had a Harry Styles-themed Eat, Pray, Love adventure, seeing his Love on Tour show a whopping seventeen (17) times in five countries, traveling with friends and fellow fans I met along the way. As my concert count rose, I began critically thinking about joy for the first time. What is joy? Where does it come from? Particularly in our post-pandemic reality, watching fans come together around the world to safely dance and sing felt like nothing short of a miracle. I was deeply inspired and Styles of Joy resulted. So thank you, Harry. I’m a big fan for many reasons.
None of us can achieve success without some help along the way. Was there a particular person who you feel gave you the most help or encouragement to be who you are today? Can you share a story about that?
I am fortunate to have a large community of loved ones–friends and family alike who have run alongside me my entire life and continuously lobbed love and encouragement my way. I could and should of course acknowledge my wonderful parents; the stories of their support are too many to count. However, sometimes I am particularly inspired by the role and impact an unexpected player or piece of advice can have on the trajectory of your life and career. That one professor, that one stranger, that one off-the-cuff remark that sticks with you. For me, I vividly remember sitting on the couch in a post-divorce slump with one of my dearest friend’s mothers, Lisa Khoury. We were sitting side-by-side, holding her new grandbaby, my godson Sebastian. I had just stopped practicing law, ended my marriage, and was reeling from the nuclear loss that resulted. Frankly, I felt flat on my face and entirely consumed by grief. She asked me what was next–I exhaustedly replied that I had no idea. And I will never forget her response. “I want you to do something epic,” she said as she cradled Sebastian. I can only imagine giving her my blankest stare. “Like what?!” I probably retorted with an ey eroll, as even the mundane felt difficult during this life lowpoint. An Oscar? A marathon? What is epic? Her charge haunted me, nagged at me. I couldn’t shake it. Do something epic. Do something epic. And while I wouldn’t begin writing “Styles of Joy” until many months later, I critically reflected on what “epic” means. And I’ve decided that “epic” isn’t about a book deal or accolade or golden apple accomplishment or Grammy. “Epic” lies in Every Person’s Individual Capacity. E.P.I.C. All of us, all the time. I think being a good neighbor is epic. I think it’s epic to help a fellow passenger retrieve their bags from the overhead bin. I think it’s epic to be a good friend or loving parent. I think it’s epic to spread joy, no matter how small. I think it’s epic to encourage someone to see their potential when they don’t see their own–just as Lisa did that day on the couch. (And now I’ve spoiled Chapter 37, entitled “Something Epic”.) Ultimately, I think it’s epic to spread joy, no matter how small.
Can you share the funniest or most interesting mistake that occurred to you in the course of your career? What lesson or take away did you learn from that?
During orientation at Stanford Law School, I attended a reception for first-year students or, as they’re also known, “1Ls” (pronounced one-el). Second and third-year students–the 2Ls and 3Ls–were not even on campus yet. Regardless, every 1L’s name tag had “1L” written under our names. Yours truly thought 1L looked like “IL” and asked several people where they were from in Illinois. If I had been paying close attention, I would have noticed that–by my faulty assessment–100% of attendees hailed from Illinois, myself included. After making a bizarre first impression and asking about a dozen students (New Yorkers, Californians, etc.) where they were from in Illinois, someone finally pointed out “that says 1L and it also says it on your nametag.” I was horrified. Blood rushed to my face and, admittedly, tears began to sting the corners of my eyes. While I was utterly humiliated in the moment (as if my anxiety was not already spiking due to fear of what was about to unfold over the next three years), I am deeply grateful for this embarrassing experience. I think the ability to not take yourself too seriously is critical to success. When I was going through the recruiting process and making my rounds at various law firms, it was the first anecdote I lobbed out. And even better? When I was on the other side doing the recruiting, I loved being able to reassure nervous applicants with my own embarrassing story. Everyone makes mistakes. It’s just a question of how you learn (or laugh).
What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now? How do you think that might help people?
After I finished the Styles of Joy manuscript, I wondered how I could engage with more people on the subject of joy. So I decided to create The Joy Hotline. I got a second cell phone number and ordered hundreds (if not thousands) of stickers that say, “What brings you joy? I want to know! Text The Joy Hotline at 214–244–0881”. These stickers have been placed all over the country, starting in Manhattan in July 2024. I am deeply inspired by the messages that pour in–some sentimental, some funny, some thought-provoking. I didn’t expect to receive so many voicemails (versus text messages) but I have to admit they are my favorite. I believe people are fundamentally good. And engaging with complete strangers in this way has only confirmed that. If seeing those stickers prompts someone to reflect on their relationship with joy, that’s enough for me. Hearing from them is just a cherry on top.
You are a successful leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?
Drive — For better or worse, I am happiest when I have a mountain to climb, when I have a big challenge on my plate. Some of my fondest memories are moments during college finals, the LSAT, law school, the Bar Exam, closing a deal while practicing law, writing or editing Styles of Joy. “What is wrong with you?” is a question I often get. And I’m not sure I have an answer. I am a high-energy person who thrives under pressure and flounders without a new goal or focus. To be clear, this trait is a blessing and a curse. It can lead to boom or bust burnout. When I was writing the book, I struggled to set personal boundaries and not work on it seven days a week. It was all so exciting that I couldn’t put it down. I look forward to seeing what crazy project I drum up next; at this point, anyone’s guess is as good as mine.
Intuition — Writing a book and navigating the publishing process (editing, marketing, cover design, legal reviews, etc.) was a deeply isolating experience. To be clear, I had/have an extraordinary team and community. But at the end of the day, I was the final vote on thousands of decisions. I am grateful that my publisher and friend Allison “Allie” Trowbridge told me early on that writing a book is starting a business. Because it’s true. Suddenly, this introvert was the conductor of a complicated figurative orchestra without any prior experience playing an instrument. The violinist (insert any professional associated with this process) was asking me what to do and my first reaction was, “I don’t know! I have never played the violin! Aren’t you the violin expert here?” I was thrust into a decision making role, calling final shots without any experience. And at the end of the day, I remembered what my dear friend Luke Erickson always advises: “One vote for your head, one vote for your heart, and three votes for your gut.” I learned to trust my instincts in a way I never had before. Maybe I hadn’t played the violin but I learned to listen closely to whether a note sounded off and strengthened my self advocacy muscles to raise a flag if something didn’t sit well with me. “I have no idea what I am doing” is a feeling I know all too well. But where I lacked experience (which was in most areas of this process), I trusted my intuition. And it has never steered me in the wrong direction.
Joyful outlook — I can’t overstate the importance of positivity. Writing, editing, and marketing this book came with an immense stress load. And any time I felt overwhelmed, I reminded myself that this process was a huge privilege. And voluntary. I’d feel crosseyed looking at my email inbox, take a deep breath, and say to myself, “Can you believe you get to be stressed out about editing your book right now? How cool is that?” I was determined to bring joy to every step of this process. Breathe in, breathe out, celebrate the small stuff, and enjoy the ride.
For the benefit of our readers, can you briefly let us know why you are an authority about the topic of finding joy?
Because I lost it. The subtitle of Styles of Joy is “A Feel-Good Framework for Rediscovering Joy (With a Twist!)” and I think emphasis should be placed on the word “rediscovering”. After the major series of transitions I went through (seemingly all at once), I was in the throes of grief. Divorce puts your entire life into a sieve or strainer and violently tosses it around; some things fall out, some things remain, but everything is shaken up. In the rebuilding season that followed, I reexamined everything. If I was going to reconstruct my life and start over from scratch, I would leave no stone unturned. I questioned every relationship, every boundary, my goals, my dreams, my faith, and–most notably–my relationship with joy. I’d fallen into autopilot in my previous life. Complacent, I was asleep at the wheel. I suggest in Styles of Joy that the opposite of joyful is not joyless–it’s jaded, blunted to the goodness of our lives. That was me. And coming out on the other side of that painful era (and difficult years that preceded it), I’ve never been more joy-filled. It’s worth noting that life is not rainbows and sunshine for anyone. Which is precisely why I am the first to cheer for joy and light whenever and however it shows up. It’s a contagious way to live and I hope readers consider Styles of Joy their invitation to do the same.
Ok, thank you for all of that. Let’s now shift to the main focus of our interview about finding joy. Even before the pandemic hit, the United States was ranked at #19 in the World Happiness Report. Can you share a few reasons why you think the ranking is so low, despite all of the privileges and opportunities that we have in the US?
Dr. Jill Stratton is an administrator at Vanderbilt University with the best title around: “Dean of Joy”. We have had a lot of great conversations about our shared favorite subject and I love a particular idea she threw out one day during one of our wonderful talks. She described joy as being like an electrical current always running through us–something we can tap into anytime if we choose to get a zing. There’s messaging in the U.S. that joy is something we’ll eventually feel when we arrive at that next destination, if we accomplish the next goal, once we have the next accolade, once we have more. Someday, someday, someday. But that is all a receding horizon, a Sisyphean effort. Joy sits inside of us ready, patiently waiting to be tapped into at this very moment.
What are the main myths or misconceptions you’d like to dispel about finding joy and happiness? Can you please share some stories or examples?
In the introduction of the book, I address the subject of privilege head-on. One of the lines acknowledges that I fully realize nobody wants to hear the old adage that money doesn’t promise a joy-filled life. I know that. But perhaps I am an interesting test case. Not only did I grow up in a privileged family, I grew up around people in similar circumstances. I know joyful people with more, I know joyful people with less. I know joyless people with more, I know joyless people with less. I have seen the gamut. And I find that the most joy-filled people I know have one common trait. It isn’t about what they have or don’t have, who they know or don’t know, or the picket fence. And that trait? They pay close attention–to themselves, to others, to the world around them. Their bar for delight is impossibly low. And they place a high value on connection and community.
In a related, but slightly different question, what are the main mistakes you have seen people make when they try to find happiness? Can you please share some stories or examples?
I have an unpopular opinion here: I think gratitude is complicated. The vast majority of the time, a consistent gratitude practice can work healthily in tandem with a joy practice. However, gratitude can also be slippery terrain. So often, I hear friends say, “I should just be grateful.” An unhealthy pressure to only feel gratitude (or any other emotion) can actually rob us of authentic joy, which requires us to take stock of all emotions–not just pleasant ones. A simple example: if someone said, “I have a sprained ankle but I should just be grateful I have a foot,” you’d look at them in confusion. You still have a sprained ankle that needs tending to, that is causing you pain and you can be grateful the situation is not more grave. Both can be true. Often, an outsized pressure to only feel grateful can lead to unhealthy minimization of hardships or struggles. And properly tending to our grief, pain, or sorrow is actually critically important for our relationship with joy.
Can you please share with our readers your “5 things you need to live with more Joie De Vivre, more joy and happiness in life, particularly during turbulent times?”
- Start small. Last summer at a Niall Horan concert at Madison Square Garden, a fan turned to me, opened a plastic bag of tiny colorful resin ducks, and asked if I wanted one. I looked at her in confusion. “I don’t get it,” I said. She smiled, shrugged her shoulders, and replied, “There’s not much to it. They’re just a good vibe.” I immediately changed my tuned. “Absolutely. Give me one of those cute ducks,” I laughed as I extended my hand. And that is how the Good Luck Ducks were born. I have started handing out tiny ducks to bring the recipient good luck and it’s caught on like wildfire. I like to scribble a note on the back of receipts for servers before setting down a tiny duck and heading out of the restaurant: “This is a Good Luck Duck…to bring you good luck and good vibes for whatever you’re working towards right now.” Good Luck Ducks get lined up every morning in my classroom before lecture begins; my students know the drill: if they have an interview, if a roommate or friend needs a little joy boost, they can always grab some Good Luck Ducks. It’s about $7 or $8 for 200 of them…I dare you to try it. Shamelessly spread a little joy. See what happens.
- Start early. I am a firm believer that integrating joy into your morning routine primes you for a joy-filled day. What would happen if you chose to do something mundane with ridiculous joy? If you made your morning commute your highlight of the day? If you decided that you will brush your teeth to the same upbeat song each morning for a week? For me, I love paying close attention to my dog’s excitement when I feed him breakfast. I sing a silly little breakfast song, he wags his tail, and I take a moment to remember that it’s my favorite chore. It might not guarantee a joy-filled day but I’ve never once regretted trying.
- Look for joy in the wild. Part II of Styles of Joy highlights the importance of adopting others’ joy as your own. After a season of significant loss, I began looking to others’ joy to fill my cup. It began with watching how much fun fans were having around me at Harry Styles concerts. Concertgoers were doing the wave! Tying together feather boas to make one long jumprope and jump with fellow attendees and strangers waiting for the show to start! Braiding each other’s hair, taking selfies, swapping friendship bracelets. “There it is,” I thought to myself. “Joy in the wild.” — Observing and absorbing others’ joy has become a huge part of my personal joy practice and is a beautiful lens with which to view the world. As C.S. Lewis once said, “No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. To those who knock it is opened.” I would suggest that those who seek find…even if that joy was first someone else’s. Joy is everywhere. Don’t forget it’s up for grabs.
- Reflect on what brings you joy. I am shocked by how often I hear people say, “I don’t know what brings me joy” or “I don’t know what I love anymore.” Joy is personal, vulnerable, and constantly shifting and changing. What brings you joy is not the same as what brings me joy. And that’s okay! A robust joy practice necessitates self reflection and, ultimately, celebrates individualism. Your moral character and core values may define who you are at your core but your joy profile is what makes you uniquely you.
- Protect your joy and others’ joy. Part III of Styles of Joy explores the relationship between joy and judgment. So often we are judgmental of not just others’ joy but our own. I frequently hear people say things like, “I know it’s weird but I love ______” — Insert anime, K-Pop, gardening, golf, needlepointing, you name it! I’ve heard even the most common joy sources described as “weird” or “random”. Why is there such shame associated with joy when these activities, hobbies, or passions aren’t hurting anyone? I say we celebrate joy in all forms, big or small. And that begins by not judging how joy shows up in your life.
What can concerned friends, colleagues, and life partners do to effectively help support someone they care about who is feeling down or depressed?
- I am not a licensed mental health professional and would leave all formal advice to the experts. That being said, in my life’s lows I have been grateful for friends and family who remind me that it’s okay to not be okay. Our dark days inform our relationship with joy, as joy and sorrow can’t be untangled. In those times, I also like to remember that there’s a difference between sitting in pain and being stuck in it. It’s okay to sit in it. There’s a time and place for joy.
- Offer to just listen. Unsolicited advice can often misfire, even if coming from a good place. Pick up the phone–it can be comforting to hear someone’s voice when you’re down in the dumps and people are way too reliant on texting these days. The day the news broke that my grandfather passed away in 2019, I got one single phone call. One. I think people assumed they’d be disturbing me, bothering me, interrupting and therefore resorted to text messages. But grief can be very quiet. And I’ll never forget how supported I felt to hear my friend Alison’s voice on the other end of the line. (Those receiving your call will only answer if they are willing and able!)
- One of my favorite questions is, “What do you think is important for me to know right now?” It’s open-ended, thoughtful, communicates a willingness to listen, and respects the boundaries of the person in need. You set the table, let them pull up a chair.
Ok, we are nearly done. You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good for the greatest number of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger.
One of my favorite chapters in the book tells the story about a woman I met on an airplane in October of 2023. As we filed onto our Southwest Airlines flight from Nashville to Dallas, I saw her handing a bucket of…things…to the flight attendant. My curiosity was piqued. I tapped her on the shoulder, asking if the flight attendant was her daughter or something. She looked slightly embarrassed as if she hoped nobody would notice her act of kindness. “No, she’s not my daughter,” she said sweetly. “It’s just that flight attendants are in the service industry but never get thanked or tipped so I make them goodie baskets every flight I go on to say thank you.” This incredible woman and I kept chatting and a few moments later she tapped me on my shoulder, producing a second bucket of goodies she had prepared for passengers. I took a look at her offerings: miniature granola bars, under eye gel masks, candy, and–most importantly–pens with a plastic thumbs up on the end. Each pen had an arguably cheesy motivational slogan: Believe In Yourself, You Are A Star, Dream Big. I happily chose a “Believe In Yourself” pen and proceeded to write several chapters of the book with it. She had no way of knowing that I was in need of that message at the time; nobody knew I was writing a book and I was too daunted to tell anyone for fear of failure. I did need to believe in myself. Fast forward, the pen ran out of ink and I took it to get framed. After all, it’s practically a character in the book. The original hangs on my wall as a reminder that joyful and generous living is always an option. But I got to thinking and tracked down the same pens online to hand out to my students at Vanderbilt University. Fast forward, quite literally hundreds of those thumbs up, encouraging pens have been distributed around campus–each student getting indoctrinated into “Club Airplane Jane” (I don’t know her actual name, unfortunately) with the story of how one person’s act of kindness can create a movement. It’s important to remember that we are our neighbors’ keeper. If not us, then who? We are all changing the world. Every day, all the time. No matter how micro or seemingly small the changes and ripples may be, day makers are world changers. The power of simple kindness cannot be overstated. (It’s my dream that this anonymous woman who I call “Airplane Jane” reads the book and reaches out.
We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US, whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we both tag them 😊
Harry Styles, of course. And here’s why. Yes, I love his music. But I so appreciate and admire what he puts out into the world, how he uses his figurative and actual microphone. If you ask Harry Styles fans to summarize his fan culture in one word, it would undoubtedly be “kindness”. Without much fanfare, he is bringing kindness to the forefront of the zeitgeist in a manner comparable to the TV show Ted Lasso. (He even has a hit song called “Treat People With Kindness” and TPWK is the fandom’s mantra.) At each concert, he instructs tens of thousands of people to “put a little love out into the world, it needs it,” as he charges attendees to turn to their neighbor, say hi, and make eye contact. “We’re going to have fun tonight but ultimately we’re going to look after one another,” Harry instructs. “I hope you can be whoever it is you have always wanted to be in this room tonight.” The result is mass psychological safety, a concept I often discuss when teaching in the Human and Organizational Development department at Vanderbilt University. When fans feel (or anyone feels) safe to be themselves, walls come down, and a tidal wave of kindness results. I watched friendships form right in front of my eyes in five countries at those seventeen concerts. It was undeniably sweet, wholesome, and joyful. And in a lonely, disconnected, screen-obsessed world, maybe “loving [is] the antidote.” (See Golden, Track 1, Fine Line) And nobody models it better than Harry Styles.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
Follow along at @scperot, scperot.com and preorder my book “Styles of Joy” now at your preferred retailer.
Thank you for these really excellent insights, and we greatly appreciate the time you spent with this. We wish you continued success and good health!
Happiness and Joy During Turbulent Times: Author SC Perot On How To Live With Joie De Vivre, Even… was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.