An Interview With Vanessa Ogle
Cultivate Self-Awareness: Inclusion begins with recognizing our own biases and emotional patterns. In a recent workshop, participants uncovered how their stress responses were shaping their interactions, leading to breakthroughs in empathy and collaboration.
In a world where diversity is often acknowledged but not always celebrated, we are taking a step forward to highlight the importance of inclusivity in building strong, vibrant communities. This series aims to explore the various facets of diversity — be it racial, cultural, gender-based, or within the differently-abled community — and understand how embracing these differences strengthens our social fabric. As part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Nkem Ndefo.
Nkem Ndefo, MSN, CNM, RN, is the founder of Lumos Transforms and creator of The Resilience Toolkit. With over 30 years of experience in trauma healing and resilience cultivation, she works to liberate individuals and communities from cycles of trauma and systemic oppression. A licensed Nurse Midwife and Registered Nurse with advanced training in emotional therapies, Nkem integrates clinical expertise with a deep commitment to justice, equity, and transformative change. She partners with organizations worldwide, speaks on the intersections of healing and equity, and is a contributing author to Practicing Liberation.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series. Before we dive into our discussion about celebrating diversity, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you share with us the backstory about what brought you to your specific career path?
My journey to this work is rooted in a commitment to liberation — liberation from trauma, systemic oppression, and the limiting beliefs that keep individuals and communities stuck. I began as a community organizer, driven by a desire to challenge systemic inequities. But I quickly recognized that these big-picture efforts often faltered because they didn’t address the deep, unresolved wounds people carry within. This realization led me to become a nurse midwife, where I could be part of life’s beginning and address trauma’s impact at its earliest stages. Over time, I saw the profound ways unhealed trauma shapes our personal and collective lives, and I founded Lumos Transforms to create pathways for healing that are personal, relational, and systemic.
Can you share an interesting or hopeful story where spending time with someone who did not look like you or who was different from you taught you something that has been useful to you?
Years ago, I facilitated a cancer support group that included an older blind man. One day, while explaining something, I used a hand gesture. He got this confused look on his face, and I had a moment of profound awareness: I was so in my own perspective that I had overlooked his entirely. That experience taught me the transformative power of radical empathy — to truly connect, we must first decenter our own assumptions and open ourselves to other possibilities. It was a small moment, but it shifted the way I engage with people, challenging me to meet them where they are and honor their lived realities.
You are a successful leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?
- Radical Empathy: Empathy is at the heart of everything I do, but empathy is not passive. For example, when I’m redesigning a program at Lumos, I make sure every stakeholder has input — clients, facilitators, and administrative staff. For me, the program is only improved if it works better for everyone it touches.
- Interdependence: True leadership honors both individual autonomy and our collective reliance on one another. When we were having some issues around scheduling, I helped our facilitators realize how their calendar habits were making our admin team’s jobs more difficult. Making our interdependence explicit gave everyone a deeper understanding of how our individual actions ripple outward.
- Courage: Liberation work demands the courage to disrupt comfort and navigate discomfort. I once supported a talented administrative assistant to leave her role with us to pursue her dream of working in the music industry. Encouraging her growth, even at the cost of losing a valued team member, is the only choice when you place human flourishing over organizational convenience.
Ok, thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the primary focus of our interview. Can you share a personal story that highlights the impact of diversity and inclusivity in your life or career?
While leading anti-racism efforts at a large healthcare system, I encountered resistance from an executive team that wanted to handle all strategic planning internally. I insisted that true inclusion required diverse voices — not just across race or gender but also across roles and lived experiences. In addition to sessions with the more “traditional” groups, we held dozens of listening sessions with night-shift workers, patients, clerks, and community groups. Their insights directly shaped the strategic plan, resulting in systemic changes to governance structures and a more inclusive workplace culture. This experience reinforced that inclusion is not a checkbox — it’s a transformative process rooted in shared power and authentic engagement.
How do you approach and manage the challenges that arise when working towards creating more inclusive communities?
My approach centers on addressing the embodied reality of these challenges. Inclusion work often activates deep fears — fear of losing privilege, fear of change, fear of being excluded. If these emotions aren’t acknowledged and processed, they can sabotage progress. For instance, I worked with a leader who felt completely stuck because of regulatory constraints. By first addressing their stress through body-based practices, we created just enough space for clarity around the issue, which led to the exploration of more creative solutions. Taking an embodied approach can literally transform fear into possibility and resistance into collaboration.
What innovative strategies or initiatives have you implemented or observed that effectively promote the importance of diversity and inclusivity?
I always try to shift the goalpost from cultural competence to cultural humility. Cultural humility is about embracing the mystery of human experience with curiosity. We can never truly understand someone else’s culture. So how can we stay soft and open in this unknown? In workshops, I often start with the question, “What is the story of your name?” This simple exercise invites people to share their histories, fostering connection and making the work feel more human and joyful. It reminds us that diversity work is not about solving a “problem” but celebrating the fullness of our shared humanity.
In your opinion, what are the key elements that make a community truly inclusive, and how can these be fostered on a larger scale?
Inclusion is not just about belonging; it’s about power. If someone is included but not empowered, that’s tokenism. It’s not enough to invite marginalized voices to the table — they need to have a say about what’s on the menu. Scaling this approach requires a cultural shift from hierarchy to interdependence, where policies and practices are rooted in relational accountability and a commitment to justice.
Ok super. Here is the main question of our interview. Based on your experience and research, can you please share “5 Ways We Can Build Inclusive Communities”? If you can, please share a story or an example for each.
- Cultivate Self-Awareness: Inclusion begins with recognizing our own biases and emotional patterns. In a recent workshop, participants uncovered how their stress responses were shaping their interactions, leading to breakthroughs in empathy and collaboration.
- Foster Radical Empathy: Empathy grows when we truly witness and honor others’ experiences. I’ve seen executives transform their leadership by learning to see challenges through their team’s eyes.
- Embrace Embodiment: Addressing stress and trauma at the body level creates the safety necessary for honest dialogue. Using mind-body practices, I’ve helped teams move from defensiveness to open, generative conversations.
- Prioritize Curiosity: Curiosity dissolves judgment and invites exploration. Asking questions like “What gifts do you bring to your work?” vs “What is your role here?” shifts the focus from differences to shared contributions.
- Center Joy: Joy sustains the hard work of transformation. By celebrating milestones and fostering moments of connection, we can make diversity work feel less like a chore and more like a meaningful journey.
How do you measure the impact and success of diversity and inclusion efforts, and what changes have you seen as a result of these initiatives?
Success is often both tangible and intangible. For example, I worked with a legal services organization that restructured its leadership to include voices of those impacted by the justice system. This shift led to more equitable decision-making and a sense of shared ownership. Beyond structural changes, the real success, especially for me, was the empowerment and dignity reported by those who had been excluded from power. It’s about transforming systems and the human lives within them.
You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
The movement I’m dedicated to has already begun: liberating individuals and communities from trauma in all its forms. Trauma keeps us stuck in cycles of fear, disconnection, and scarcity. By addressing trauma at its root, we unlock the potential for collective healing, creativity, and thriving. This work is not just about survival; it’s about reimagining and co-creating worlds that are rooted in justice and flourishing in joy.
How can our readers further follow you online?
Readers can follow me on Instagram and follow Lumos Transforms on Instagram and Facebook to keep up with the work that I am doing.
Thank you for the time you spent sharing these fantastic insights. We wish you continued success in your great work!
About The Interviewer: Vanessa Ogle is a mom, entrepreneur, inventor, writer, and singer/songwriter. Vanessa’s talent in building world-class leadership teams focused on diversity, a culture of service, and innovation through inclusion allowed her to be one of the most acclaimed Latina CEO’s in the last 30 years. She collaborated with the world’s leading technology and content companies such as Netflix, Amazon, HBO, and Broadcom to bring innovative solutions to travelers and hotels around the world. Vanessa is the lead inventor on 120+ U.S. Patents. Accolades include: FAST 100, Entrepreneur 360 Best Companies, Inc. 500 and then another six times on the Inc. 5000. Vanessa was personally honored with Inc. 100 Female Founder’s Award, Ernst and Young’s Entrepreneur of the Year Award, and Enterprising Women of the Year among others. Vanessa now spends her time sharing stories to inspire and give hope through articles, speaking engagements and music. In her spare time she writes and plays music in the Amazon best selling new band HigherHill, teaches surfing clinics, trains dogs, and cheers on her children.
Please connect with Vanessa here on linkedin and subscribe to her newsletter Unplugged as well as follow her on Substack, Instagram, Facebook, and X and of course on her website VanessaOgle.
Celebrating Diversity: Nkem Ndefo of Lumos Transforms On How To Build Inclusive Communities was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.