Yulin Olliver Of For Us By Us Sports Management On How to Go Beyond Your Comfort Zone To Grow Both Personally and Professionally
An Interview with Maria Angelova
Live A Life By Design. That means starting at the end, and unfolding it backwards until you reach today. Create a team that holds you accountable for your greatness or you’ll be driven by feelings about yourself. Be your word, versus your feelings when it comes to actions and goals you gave your word to.
It feels most comfortable to stick with what we are familiar with. But anyone who has achieved great success will tell you that true growth comes from pushing yourself out of your comfort zone. What are some ways that influential people have pushed themselves out of their comfort zone to grow both personally and professionally? As a part of this series, I had the pleasure of interviewing
Yulin Olliver is a sports agent and former professional snowboarder who has used her love for sports and people to drive impactful initiatives and results across the action sports industry. She has represented numerous world-class action sports clients, including Olympic and X Games gold medalists, SLS world and national champions, and other professional athletes in skateboarding, snowboarding, skiing and surfing. Her life’s work has been dedicated to the empowerment of women, Black, Asian and gender non-conforming professionals to experience extraordinary careers — which is a core value at her company, For Us, By Us Sports Management.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we start, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood backstory?
I grew up in Hopkinton and Holliston, Massachusetts. I was the only Asian kid in my school but I felt like I fit right in. Sports had provided an equalizing effect. I played basketball and was a cheerleader, but had an unexpected talent as a runner. Never having run before, I became the fastest girl in cross-country in my high school and broke the girls home-course record. I felt like any white, middle class kid in a rural New England town and I loved my childhood. Being able to assimilate became a skillset to my advantage. My immigrant parents came to the US as grad school students from Taiwan, so I started speaking English at age three. My goal was to become a veterinarian, or a race horse jockey. My pre-vet journey gave me access to experiences like volunteering and living in Yellowstone National Park, riding horses in exchange for mucking stalls, and majoring in microbiology. I didn’t find snowboarding until I graduated college, which led to the rest of my life and career.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
My favorite life-lesson quotes are “It Ain’t Necessarily So”, “It’s what’s on the inside that counts”, “come from abundance versus scarcity”; and “If I could wave a magic wand and anything was possible, what would life look like?”
My parents used to call it “talking back” but in actuality, “It Ain’t Necessarily So” translates to that there’s ALWAYS a way. I’ve never experienced a situation or conversation where something was impossible. It’s always possible. My internal dialogue always proposes “but what if…”. There is always a means to an end, sometimes it means not giving up and trying harder, or smarter. Sometimes it means getting creative. Sometimes it means taking a different perspective and allowing yourself to be contributed to. When I first heard about the Inclusion Riders clause in contracts, I wanted to become the first to create one in sports for something that helped people. I said “if I could wave a magic wand, what would I have come true?” That’s when I discovered that gender equality on a film shoot was a dream of my client’s. Imagine if the director, camera op, sound person, everyone identified as queer, or a woman, or trans? As a result, my gender identity inclusion rider ended up in a Chevy deal I negotiated and was later described as unprecedented in the sports world.
Is there a particular book, podcast, or film that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?
I’d say the most pivotal and significant catalyst was not so much a book or film, but a three-day experiential course I took in 2012. It changed my destiny 180 degrees in a permanent way, like learning to ride a bike, it opened my eyes to where I was standing in my own way and you can’t unlearn riding a bike.
I used to be insecure, a victim of life’s circumstances following the suggested path and status quo. Life seemed to offer very few options, no one was hiring me. I felt stuck. The world seemed daunting, overwhelming, and in control of my destiny i.e., job applications, veterinary school applications etc. In 2008 I became unemployed with an MBA degree and experience as a sponsored pro snowboarder. My dream job ended at Fuel TV and I couldn’t land a new job for over a year. Then I took a course at Landmark Worldwide called the Forum to help me get a job. Instead, it changed my entire career trajectory. I became someone who now lives a life by design. And what’s more, I learned how to give that away to others. I went from feeling like a buoy in the ocean with no control, to someone who can now reliably manifest results like financial abundance, while making a difference in what matters most to me, my clients and my loved ones. It’s the single most productive thing I’ve done and it keeps on giving in all areas of my family life and career.
Let’s now shift to the main part of our discussion. Let’s start with a basic definition so that all of us are on the same page. What does “getting outside of your comfort zone” mean?
Getting outside your comfort zone means two things to me:
- The pursuit of Happiness
- Being your word, versus being your feelings.
“Happiness” you say? Yes, Happiness. Human nature has us lean toward the well known, the safe, the predictable. But if we unpack that for just a minute — what if “safe or certainty” is not synonymous with Happiness?
I’m addicted to feeling happy, self expressed, awesome, exhilarated, and confident. Aren’t you? And I want that for anyone else who wants that. What if I told you there appears to be an inverse relationship between “Certainty” and “Happiness”? And that there is a direct correlation between “Uncertainty” and “Happiness”. By this hypothesis alone, you’ll always find me looking for ways to insert at least a little bit of “uncertainty” into each day. In an extreme example, how unhappy was Bill Murray’s character trapped in the perpetually recurring Groundhog Day? In contrast, when I predict that something unexpectedly awesome will drop into my lap, not only have I gone outside what’s predictable and in my comfort zone, but I’ve just made progress, possible. By definition, “progress” means different from before! Progress is defined as forward or onward movement toward a destination. So as long as today is the same as yesterday, by definition, there was no progress, no growth, and that’s the antithesis of what a business or startup requires for success.
To yearn for “Uncertainty” is often counterintuitive. It doesn’t feel safe. We’ve been let down before. But if it’s guaranteed to bring you happiness, and progress, isn’t it worth the risk? This is my definition of “getting outside your comfort zone”.
And the access to being outside my comfort zone is what I call “Being your word, versus being your feelings.” For example, how many times have you found yourself procrastinating? You know what the one specific action is, that would make a material difference in your KPIs, milestones, sales targets etc and you just don’t feel like doing it. One tip I have for myself is that the time to BE my word, is when I GIVE my word, not when it’s time to EXECUTE my word. So the minute I promise I’m going to do something by a certain time, is the only time I can change my mind about doing it. Once I’ve given my word to something, no matter how lazy or unmotivated I feel, once the time comes I have to just do what I said I’d do. And that’s the 2nd way I stay outside my comfort zone.
Can you help articulate a few reasons why it is important to get out of your comfort zone? Is it possible to grow without leaving your comfort zone? Can you explain what you mean?
Anything is possible. But professionally, you are guaranteed to have zero progress or growth , if your comfort zone means minimizing uncertainty because inside uncertainty is where change, progress and the possibility of better lives. Personally, every conversation I’ve resisted has more to do with me than them. If I don’t leave my comfort zone, what I can actually depend on is the conflict persisting and existing longer. The only relief with interpersonal conflict I’ve found is to go outside my comfort zone, by being vulnerable, calling the person and clearing the air by listening actively, and giving up my need to protect or defend.
Can you share some anecdotes from your personal experience? Can you share a story about a time when you stepped out of your comfort zone and how it helped you grow? How does it feel to take those first difficult steps?
So there I was sitting in my little white lab coat, pipetting cells in a skin cancer research lab at the Brigham and Women’s Hospital! I was 22 years old. I’d spent my entire young life aspiring to become a veterinarian and I was only 2 years away from starting at Tuft Veterinary School. The 20 year plan was nearly complete. The rest of my veterinarian life could be routine, safe, reliable, and predictable…but then I met snowboarding. I fell in love. I was insatiable and nothing else mattered. Was I going to allow myself to live, breathe and eat snowboarding? Even if it meant living out of my car, moving to a new state where I knew no one, and working an hourly ski resort job where no college degree is required? Could I abandon my “life’s work” and the approval of my loved one to choose a path with no proven path? (It reminds me how in snowboarding, whoever is at the front of the line hiking up a mountain in virgin snow sees no path, yet for everyone behind you the hike is exponentially easier. It takes less energy, and it requires no decision making. Figuratively speaking, Women and Asian snowboarders aspiring to go pro were “boot-packing” a career that didn’t exist yet).
In retrospect, I knew no professional snowboarders in real life. Women pro snowboarders or Asian snowboarders didn’t exist in the magazines. It felt illogical and reckless to throw away my biology degree to go chase something with no possibility model to follow. Career changes are never easy, especially your first.
I did my best to control what I could. From Boston, I found a job over the phone at a ski resort in a dedicated mountain town. I saved up money, packed up my little Toyota Tercel with all my earthly belongings and my snowboard, and headed west. I knew I’d have to give it my all in order to give this dream any chance of working out. There was something about having a blank canvas and no safety net that allowed me to see who I really was and what I was really made of. Our identity is in many ways, defined in the eyes of others. I took on being curious and open, and loved the me that showed up when I finally gave myself permission to be authentic, hardworking, passionate, and true. The takeaway for me was when I go all in, paired with thoughtful strategy, survival instincts will kick in and it will all work out every time.
Here is the central question of our discussion. What are your “five ways to push past your comfort zone, to grow both personally and professionally”?
- Live A Life By Design. That means starting at the end, and unfolding it backwards until you reach today. Create a team that holds you accountable for your greatness or you’ll be driven by feelings about yourself. Be your word, versus your feelings when it comes to actions and goals you gave your word to.
When my pro skateboarder friends told me they had to wear men’s skate shoes while competing on TV because high performance shoes designed for non-male feet didn’t exist, I declared a date in the future and a vision. “In three years, there will be high performance skate shoes on the market made to fit a woman’s foot.” Then I surrounded myself with unofficial teammates to hold me accountable for my potential. Unfolding the vision backwards, we said if Skateboarding became an Olympic sport, women will rise, dominate in the storytelling and the brands will follow with investments in women and high performance skate shoes. Retailers will follow by stocking smaller sized shoes. Now just a few years later, it’s all come to fruition and my clients quit their day jobs to become full-time sponsored skateboarders.
2. Commit. It’s not possible to have a foot in each camp if you’re launching a business. It rarely works to still have your day job. There is no replacement for the fire and urgency you bring when you take away that safety net.
3. The Business Plan is real, it’s a litmus test for yourself and a safe way to spread your wings and “go outside your comfort zone” but in an educated, calculated, strategic way.
4. Ask Yourself what you’d do if you knew you couldn’t fail and anything was possible. Then look for evidence that you are good enough. Because whatever evidence you look for, will appear. If you look for evidence you’ll fail, guess what will show up? Notice how as you do this exercise with a friend — what shows up for you will likely be news to even you!
5. Find the cross section of what you’re amazing at, but also love. It’s not going to work to do what you love if you’re not good at it. Conversely, it’s not sustainable to do what you’re good at if it doesn’t light you up inside.
I made it into vet school! I love animals and am talented with them. But I was only an average veterinary student. Vet medicine did not create a cross-section of what I loved, and what I was extraordinary at. Action sports, athletes, advocacy and a life of adventure on the other hand is a better combination of what I’m good at, and what I love. With my clients, it’s the athletes who also must both love their chosen sport and be extraordinary at it. There are plenty of skateboarders, snowboarders, climbers and break dancers who love what they do. But love is just not enough if you’re looking for it to be your career.
From your experience or perspective, what are some of the common barriers that keep someone from pushing out of their comfort zone?
- Lack of practice dreaming big and speculating “What Could Happen…”
- Looking for evidence you’ll fail.
- Not having a solid business plan that passed the viability test.
- Lack of resources and financial stability, the risk of failure would be too financially devastating.
- Doing it on your own.
- Skipping over celebrating and acknowledging the wins and accomplishments along the way.
There is a well-known quote attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt that says, “Do something that scares you every day”. What exactly does this mean to you? Is there inherent value in doing something that pushes you out of your comfort zone, even if it does not relate to personal or professional growth? For example, if one is uncomfortable about walking alone at night should they purposely push themselves to do it often for the sake of going beyond their comfort zone? Can you please explain what you mean?
Definitely NO. Not that kind of comfort zone. Everyone’s abilities are different and you need to ski, skate, snowboard, etc. within your known ability levels for example. Physical safety is never to be compromised or doubted. That’s very distinct from professionally having your startup be outside your comfort zone. Startups are outside everyone’s comfort zones!
To be distinct, in a professional context, one of the most endearing things I admire and love about skateboarders and snowboarders, is their gut instinct. They are the epitome of authenticity and athleticism. I always say, never doubt a skateboarder or snowboarder’s gut instinct. And we are regularly outside our comfort zone. It’s the norm for us. And even still, we know when it is too much or unsafe.
To clarify, I always start with the end goal and vision. It’s a very objective process. Outside the comfort zone is not defined by being scared. It’s simply defined by unfolding what milestones are needed to reach the goal, then unfolding the actions and conversations required to cause those milestones, and finally attaching due dates to those actions mandatory to meeting the milestones — and doing so regardless of how you feel about it. The laying out of the strategy is done with a clarity and mindfulness of risks and a logical cost/benefit analysis! This is when you GIVE your word to do the plan as you’ve laid it out. And no bailing out when it’s time to BE your word. That’s what I mean about being outside your comfort zone, being your promise versus your feelings. The strategy itself will be outside your comfort zone, but smart and feasible.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
I would love to see society walk a more sophisticated line in the conversation about gender, gender equity and trans youth. On the one hand, feminism has come a long way and the gap was great. There is still a long way to go. It still is palpable as most industries are male-dominated. Coming from abundance versus scarcity, I see a world where we can simultaneously cause equity for women at the same time as we reduce the narrative and constant categorization of the binary and having to categorize everyone. I see pockets of society where we’ve successfully carved out space for the plethora of non-binary, gender-non-conforming and trans kids and folks including both cis and trans women. “It’s what’s on the inside that counts’’. Mental health, full self expression, community, generational wealth, love, financial abundance, freedom, choice of one’s lived life experience, and contribution — these are what matter. One’s gender identity is not a choice, it just is, and we’re saving our youth and adults from rising rates of suicide and violence if we can just let folks live, as we ourselves would like to be left to live our truth and best lives.
Is there a person in the world whom you would love to have lunch with, and why? Maybe we can tag them and see what happens!
Michelle Obama and Miley Cyrus are the epitome of full self expression, committed to empowering others, and being a stand for equity especially for the underrepresented, no matter how unpopular they or their positions might be to some. Both have created their own financial abundance and independence, and with that comes power and choice. Yet they choose to focus their energy on making the world a better place for others. I am so inspired by those who lead with grace, power and full self confidence in their versions of what it means to be feminine, whole, perfect and complete. And they know how to laugh and smile and sing to the fullest — living life playfully. Who said we can’t have both professional success and playfulness! I would ask what’s been working for them; what lights them up; what accomplishments have they planned for to happen in the near future; what’s challenging; and what’s not working at the moment. I’d ask them what accomplishment they are most proud of.
How can our readers follow you online?
For Us By Us Sports Management is talent management reimagined. The agency is on instagram @FubuSportsMGMT. My personal agenting adventures can be found @agentyulinolliver on instagram.
Thank you so much for sharing these important insights. We wish you continued success and good health!
About The Interviewer: Maria Angelova, MBA is a disruptor, author, motivational speaker, body-mind expert, Pilates teacher and founder and CEO of Rebellious Intl. As a disruptor, Maria is on a mission to change the face of the wellness industry by shifting the self-care mindset for consumers and providers alike. As a mind-body coach, Maria’s superpower is alignment which helps clients create a strong body and a calm mind so they can live a life of freedom, happiness and fulfillment. Prior to founding Rebellious Intl, Maria was a Finance Director and a professional with 17+ years of progressive corporate experience in the Telecommunications, Finance, and Insurance industries. Born in Bulgaria, Maria moved to the United States in 1992. She graduated summa cum laude from both Georgia State University (MBA, Finance) and the University of Georgia (BBA, Finance). Maria’s favorite job is being a mom. Maria enjoys learning, coaching, creating authentic connections, working out, Latin dancing, traveling, and spending time with her tribe. To contact Maria, email her at angelova@rebellious-intl.com. To schedule a free consultation, click here.
Yulin Olliver Of For Us By Us Sports Management On How to Go Beyond Your Comfort Zone To Grow Both… was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.