Social Impact Heroes: Why & How Dr. Lolly de Jonge Of IndigeKin Productions is Helping To Change Our World
“A voice is a human gift; it should be cherished and used, to utter fully human speech as possible. Powerlessness and silence go together.”
As part of my series about “individuals and organizations making an important social impact”, we had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. Lolly de Jonge, IndigeKin Productions.
Dr. Lolly de Jonge is a human development expert and change agent who has extensive executive management experience in the private and non-profit sectors with an eclectic background in media arts production (TV, film, music and podcasts), health care leadership, the energy industry, and hospitality ownership. Lolly is the Chief Executive Officer of IndigeKin Productions and the Creative Facilitator and Host of “The Gift” reality series. With a PhD in Human & Organizational Systems and Master’s degrees in Human Development and in Environment & Management, every project or engagement that Dr. Lolly involves herself in is rooted in bringing out the best in organizations and people, the fulfillment of dreams and making the world a better place.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Can you tell us a story about what brought you to this specific career path?
That is definitely a bit of a story going back to my youngest days. It’s rooted in the most heartbreaking occurrence of my life which ultimately led me to finding and using my voice. It’s not possible to talk about what brought me to this career path without reflecting on my journey of reclaiming my voice.
Our family is Indigenous. Historically, the quelling of voice by Indigenous people was common because of the extreme discrimination against them particularly when children were sent to religious-run, residential schools where their language and spirituality were destroyed and they were abused and neglected by the teachers and staff. The last residential school didn’t close until 1996! My paternal grandfather had been institutionalized in a residential school and the impacts have rippled through the generations of our family as we all forge a path of healing.
I recall little about how I came to silence myself as a child. I certainly wasn’t born that way. None of us are. . . newborns have no problem making their needs known! I do remember in Grade 2 visiting the school library and trying to sign out a book from the Grade 6 section. The librarian wouldn’t let me and I acquiesced. I went home and casually mentioned it to my mother. She grabbed my hand, marched me across the street from our home to the school, and told the librarian, “If my daughter wants to read that book, she can read it. Let her decide if it’s beyond her.”
That told me that I was deserving, that what I wanted was worth pursuing, and that, to use Margaret Atwood’s words which I’ll share later, my voice is a gift to be cherished and used. But the older I got, the more and more I was motivated by approval and the harder it was to speak my mind or ask for what I want.
My family moved during the summer before I entered Grade 12. In my 16-year-old girl mind, I was certain that my parents’ intent was to ruin my life. Later that school year, I dropped out of school and became pregnant shortly thereafter. My options were to leave the family home and provide for myself or have my parents provide for me by being sent to Villa Rosa, a home for unwed mothers that was run by nuns in a city far away. I chose the institution.
Each morning in chapel the nuns would preach of God’s love. They told us to call on Him. “What a joke!” I thought. Towards the end of my labour as I was pushing and pushing, I felt completely blocked and stuck. I looked up at a crucifix on the wall. I figured it couldn’t hurt and I cried out to God. Moments later, on June 11, 1979, alone in a room full of strangers, sliced open, I give birth to my first child.
He was perfect and was brought and held inches from my face. My heart melted. When asked if I wanted to hold him, I declined. I didn’t think it was a good idea. As I gazed into his eyes, they mirrored back my lost innocence. Twelve days later, I signed the closed adoption papers (we didn’t reunite until 37 years later). I gave the following letter to the social worker to pass on.
June 21, 1979 Dear Eric, I really don’t know how to start this letter. What can I say to someone I’ll probably never know? I just hope that you can accept my giving you up and not resent me for it . . . If I had kept you, I would have had . . . to go on welfare. I would have been able to give you all the love you would need, but probably none of the things children should have. . . I just hope that you can always appreciate your parents for the life that they’re giving you. I know that your life will be so much better in the home you are placed in. It’s so hard to give you up, it’s the hardest thing that I’ve ever had to do and most likely the hardest thing I’ll ever have to do. You’re such a beautiful baby and I will think of you often for the rest of my life. Good luck in life and always remember, I love you with all my heart. Love Always, Your Mother
Indeed, it was the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life. When I’m an old woman looking back on life, I will consider that choice one of hardest yet most important ones I’ve ever made. My memories could fill a book — poignant, amusing, shocking, and heartbreaking. They are the seeds that sowed my life’s passion and set me on a path as a film and television producer and host, entrepreneur, facilitator, writer, and co-founder of IndigeKin Productions. It was the start of my practice, a life focused on problem solving, activism, helping others to fulfill their dreams and making a social impact. My work has instilled in me a deep-seated belief in the inherent goodness of people and humans’ capacity for resilience, healing and becoming their greatest selves.
My first short film, “What Goes Around Comes Around” was co-written with my other son who I adopted and was ten years old at the time. The film chronicled our respective experiences of losing family and finding love. I had given a little boy to the world only to have another one come into my life 25 years later. Since then, I’ve been involved in unscripted film and television projects, all rooted in a higher purpose.
Most recently, I am a producer and the Creative Facilitator for two seasons of The Gift, a nine-episode reality television series that brings together 12 talented people from different creative fields (stage performers, musicians and visual artists), each hoping to impress the Sugar Mama (an arts loving philanthropist) and win a gift from her of $100,000. What a thrill it’s been to be a part of their journey as they write new pages in their stories. They surprised me by going above and beyond what we ever expected.
All of this had led me to my current path of human development to support people in becoming their highest self and achieving big, audacious goals.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began leading your company or organization?
One of the most interesting things that has happened to me since leading IndigeKin is the deepening of my relationship with a person who I’ve known since the day I was born, my sister, best friend, colleague and co-host on The Gift, Therese ‘Tag’ Goulet, also known as the Sugar Mama.
Tag has always been my “big sister,” looking after me in so many ways. . . including offering to give me money to go hide away when I was pregnant the first time so my parents wouldn’t find out. Over the years, we’ve often worked together. It all started with daily walking two bull mastiff show dogs named Butch and Caesar for four dollars a week each when we were 12 and 13 years old.
Then, in 2021, Tag introduced me to her concept for The Gift reality series featuring her as a philanthropic matron of the arts known as the Sugar Mama. I was all in! Both in our sixties, neither of us had undertaken such an endeavor. We were building the bridge as we crossed it and living a life that famed author and disability rights advocate, Helen Keller, described, “Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all.” And wow! What an adventure it’s been. It went from the two of us with the seeds of a concept to over 125 cast and crew filming in a luxury location and changing the lives of everyone involved. We are so excited to bring the series to the world and inspire our audience to be their greatest selves and follow their dreams.
But what is most interesting for the three of us (we have since brought our brother John McDougall-Goulet on as a partner) has been the journey that we have gone on personally. We have been challenged to look deeply at ourselves, tap into even more of our gifts and become our greatest selves. That’s what we ask of our cast; we must be willing to do so ourselves.
It has been said that our mistakes can be our greatest teachers. Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
If I go back to when I was first making a social impact in my twenties, my biggest mistake was jumping on my high horse and furiously riding around for all to see. I was so impassioned about my cause of wanting better experiences for birthing people because of my own experience, that my ability to be effective and truly influence change was curtailed. My strident opinions would sometimes turn people off rather than engaging in a two-way exploratory conversation that could advance progress or lead to healing.
What I have since come to know and embody in my approach to life is that it’s important to meet people where they are at and to listen. . . listen not just to what they say but to who they are, their story, their healing, their dreams. Then, make the connection within whatever context we are in and open up the conversation to be meaningful and reflective. That way, we are both learning and expanding our knowledge.
Currently, for me, that’s facilitating and hosting The Gift television series. In other words, I no longer come in thinking I have answers for anyone other than for myself. Facilitating means to make easy. My job is to be curious, ask questions, probe and allow the person with whom I’m engaging to arrive at their own answers. There is so much more power in that.
Can you describe how you or your organization is making a significant social impact?
At IndigeKin Productions, our vision is “to create, produce and distribute Indigenous-led media arts projects that ignite a spark in viewers to explore, reflect on and celebrate life.” We target mainstream broadcasters and audiences but we are not mainstream in our views nor how we work, tell stories and make decisions. We challenge the status quo through self-determination, alternative narratives, amplifying Indigenous perspectives and creating inspiring content.
We do not exploit or contrive for the sake of entertainment. We aim to reform and reconstruct the dominant view of the unscripted television genre to be healing and empowering for storytellers, cast, crew and viewers.
Although unscripted television is intended to reflect “real life,” it is very white, heteronormative and cisgender which can impact how we see others and understand ourselves. IndigeKin’s work challenges this artificial worldview and aims to contemporize it. As such, our productions aren’t simply about or by Indigenous people. As Indigenous producers who are committed to inclusion, our work reflects many gender identities, sexualities, races, body types, faiths, abilities and social classes.
We aspire to shape public opinion by not perpetuating negative stereotypes and by shedding light on important issues. Our unscripted productions are an arena for expressing identities, promoting positive social change and sparking viewers to live their best lives.
As individuals, we and our team members develop and heal ourselves as part of the process. We rely on and are grateful for our Elders, Teachers and Ancestors who share their wisdom and guidance along the way. We are furthering our vision every day.
Can you tell us a story about a particular individual who was impacted or helped by your cause?
There have been so many. One who really stands out for me is Sterling Scott who is a comedian and was one of The Gift’s season 1 Creatives. From the outset during casting, I really connected with him. He came in very competitively and, in short order, came to realize that while our series was certainly about their talent, there was a large personal growth component to it. Sterling let his walls down and became vulnerable. I was honoured to have a long private conversation about the lived experience of a Black man in North America, how he had to fight for everything he had achieved and some of the injustices he’d faced. It was eye-opening especially since I have a son-in-law who is Black and, since then, we’ve been able to talk about his lived experience.
I don’t want to give any spoilers but, by the end of the series, Sterling shifted his approach away from a “let’s kill each other competition” approach to an attitude of appreciation for the other Creatives and an outlook of, “You can’t stop me” for himself.
He told me that he wanted to deliver comedy in a way that is still extremely funny but also makes people think about important social issues. I recently went to one of his performances and he has done just that! His delivery was markedly different in the way he described it after the series and truly made us audience members reflect. Sterling subsequently went on to win the Golden Buzzer on Canada’s Got Talent, perform across North America, the Caribbean and Mexico, and recently produced his first special, “The Comedy Reject.” He elevated his craft and is using it to raise consciousness on important social issues while still making people bust a gut. @sterlingsjokes
Are there three things the community/society/politicians can do to help you address the root of the problem you are trying to solve?
My hope, wish and dream is that people can be on a path to be their greatest selves. Three things that can contribute to that are:
Investment in the Creative Industries Sector: This type of investment plays an important role in the economy and makes a difference in many people’s lives. The IFC (International Finance Corporation) of the World Bank Group and others report that the Creatives Industries sector, “Has an important economic multiplier effect where $1 spent creates $2.5 of wealth for the economy. Creative Industries represent up to 2–7% of GDP where they are most developed and are likely to be an important driver of economic growth as governments increase their focus on the sector.” Investing in this sector fuels financial growth, creates entertainment value and touches people’s lives.
Curtailing Polarization Around Social Issues: There are deeply embedded systemic issues that often fuel polarization around social issues that can sometimes make it seem overwhelming to even get started to solve problems. But we must do what we can knowing that we may not see the change that we’d like to see within our own lifetime. I remember having this realization about five years ago around the advocacy work I was doing in the perinatal space. Initially it saddened me to consider that my long-term aspiration would never be accomplished in my lifetime. But once I accepted the reality of it, I actually felt freer. Yes, there remains a sense of urgency and responsibility but it isn’t entirely up to me. It’s a process and eliminating systemic barriers is time consuming. Still, I forge on.
The Indigenous Haudenosaunee people have a teaching, “We are a part of everything that is beneath us, above us, and around us. Our past is our present, our present is our future, and our future is seven generations past and present.” I think when we take this kind of an approach, it can make the social impact work that we do that much more meaningful. Our family currently has four living generations and I can see the ripples of change and healing that are running through each generation.
Taking A Restorative Approach to Problems: There is so much broken in the world. Why do people do things they shouldn’t? Why do people harm others? We are born into perfection. When I welcomed the Creatives to The Gift tv series, I said, “Look at what it took for you to be here today. Not just from when you decided to apply to the show but since the day you came earthside in all of your perfection. Look at what it took.” There were tears as they all undertook their big, audacious goal.
Life happens and, along the way, our pain becomes a lens through which we can sometimes have an inaccurate view of ourselves, others and the world. It behooves us to get on a healing path that becomes a journey of remembrance of our original pure, perfect selves when we were born. When we are able to do that, we can come into encounters as a whole (yet still human) person. Instead of seeking vengeance, we can clearly and intentionally solve problems by restoring relationships provided both parties are willing especially the one who was harmed.
An example that is close to my heart is my dear friend Terry (Coyote) Aleck who honored IndigeKin Productions by asking us to make a documentary about his life. It’s currently in development. Coyote underwent years of horrific abuse in a residential school and subsequent addiction to the brink of finding himself with a gun in his mouth about to pull the trigger. His life is a journey from trauma through justice at the Supreme Court against the government and the church to walking the healing path and finding his soul mate, Christine (White Wolf Woman) Turenne, to doing something good with his life. His is a story of strength, survival and inspiration that reminds us that, no matter what our journey has been, our spirit can triumph.
Coyote restored his relationship with the church. Now, he and Christine now teach drumming in church sanctuaries and other settings including during filming of The Gift with people who are committed to reconciliation among Indigenous and non-Indigenous people.
How do you define “Leadership”? Can you explain what you mean or give an example?
Thank you for the question. I love talking about leadership which I consider to be an intentional choice to contribute to human development. There is no set definition of leadership. One that I wrote some years ago is that it is “a complex, dynamic, contextually based process whereby an individual develops capacity to influence intrapersonally, interpersonally and globally.” Individual development starts with truly knowing oneself and expands to the leader-other relationship. Says Brené Brown, “We desperately need more leaders who are committed to courageous, wholehearted leadership and who are self-aware enough to lead from their hearts, rather than unevolved leaders who lead from hurt and fear.”
Leadership is multi-faceted by nature both within relationships and situations. Leadership is distinct from management and is a process that can be learned whether leadership is assigned by virtue of a title or position or if it emerges from engaging the support of followers.
Leadership rules have changed from days gone by with some rules yet to be written. Changing economic, social and political forces are challenging leaders and organizations to be more collaborative, open and interdependent. The web of possibilities that leaders now face in any given situation or decision necessitates exploring choices from multiple perspectives.
Leadership is complex. At the core, leaders are called to express their highest selves. A question I often ask myself and others and which I’m asking you, Dear Reader is, “How are you doing?”
What are your “5 things I wish someone told me when I first started” and why. Please share a story or example for each.
Starting anything new is a big, audacious goal, whether it’s a business venture, a new relationship, going back to school, or learning a new habit or sport. It is a GIFT that we have decided to give to ourselves. We can use the four letters in gift as a guide with my fifth thing is simply a reminder.
1 . Grit: It takes grit to start any big, audacious goal. You have to realistically know where you’re starting from, believe in your ability to get there and have the courage to navigate every obstacle along the way. . . and there will be obstacles. It takes grit to cross the finish line. An example of this was when I was close to finalizing my doctoral dissertation. I was having a challenging time with analyzing the data that I had gathered. I happened to have an appointment with my chiropractor and was explaining to her how blocked my brain felt, kind of like someone’s home in a hoarder television show.
“Well, let’s get you unblocked,” she said. As she had me start tapping (an Emotional Freedom Technique that manipulates energy), we talked about it. At first it didn’t help so she started tapping me herself and continued to ask questions.
“It’s like I can’t give myself permission to finish,” I said.
“And why is that?”
After a long pause, a tear started to roll down my cheek. “I don’t deserve to.” She then started affirmations, “I love and accept myself. I love and accept myself.”
I went home refreshed and ready to dig in again. Two days later, after spending many hours working with the data analysis software that I was finding extremely difficult to master, my husband came home and asked me how it was going. I melted into his arms and cried harder than I had in a long time. I cried out to God.
“Come to bed,” my husband said.
“No, I have to figure this out.” Several hours later, it all started to fall into place.
Late at night, a few days later I was putting the final touches on my draft dissertation which I had promised to email to my Committee Chair by first thing the following morning. Suddenly, I had an overwhelming sense of ownership. In that precise moment, I knew with certainty that I had created knowledge, that my Dissertation was my creation, and that I owned it. It was a spiritual experience and profoundly moving. The only other times I’d experienced such a deep knowing in an instant were the pregnancies of each of my daughters when I had the realization that they had chosen to become earthbound. I felt like I had given birth to a greater part of myself.
I let myself bathe in the glory of knowing and being for only a few brief moments. I did not want to be overly self-indulgent when I had a commitment to fulfill. The next morning, I cried tears of joy from the realization that I had, in fact, accomplished my big, audacious goal . . . and it had taken grit!
2 . Intention: Big, audacious goals require absolute clarity of purpose and focus coupled with action. Know where you’re going and why. Even being slightly off course, can take you far astray of where you want to be. The concept of the One Degree Difference offers a means of considering this. Writer Joel O’Leary gives the example of a 12-hour flight from San Francisco to Rome. If the flight path is one degree off to the south, after 12 hours, the flight will arrive in Tunisia, Africa. . . nowhere near Rome.
An example of this was when we were in preproduction for the first season of The Gift television series. We spent a lot of time planning around our schedule and budget and becoming extremely clear on the purpose of the series. However, we had never undertaken a project of this scale before and there were many surprises and mistakes along the way. In hindsight, more clarity on our scheduling and budgeting would have made the process easier. It’s important to note that being off course shouldn’t be something to beat ourselves up about. Rather, it is an opportunity to learn and improve. In our case, we’ve been able to apply our learnings to our second season and other projects. Fortunately, with season 1 we had clarity on the purpose of the series and we are so pleased that we were able to further our mission “to create, produce and distribute an unscripted television series where talented Creatives (cast and crew) shine.” Intention plus action equals results.
3 . Faith: Underpinning intention and grit, when it comes to big, audacious goals, one must have faith in themselves and in knowing that, in the long term, everything will fall in place for the highest good. Taking a spiritual approach, no matter what your beliefs or faith tradition is key. Now, I know some people are wary of the word “spiritual” for a variety of reasons. By no means am I referring to religion. Rather, I’m referring to those moments and experiences when there is a knowing that our life has a purpose that we’re living, and that the universe is a safe, abundant and loving place. Whether you call it “the Creator,” “the universe,” “God” or an “Essential Experience,” it’s a common human experience that reminds us of our true selves.
An area of my life where faith prevailed was finding my husband. I had been a single mother for eight years and really wanted to be in a relationship. I had taken the time to really look at myself and heal around who I had been in my first marriage and who I needed to become to be a great wife. I kept praying to the Creator to send me the man of my dreams. This went on for a long time until one day I changed my prayer, “Dear God, I’m not trying to tell you what to do but could you please send me the man of my dreams? I’ve been waiting a long time.” The next day Mike de Jonge walked into my life and in March, we will have been married for 25 years. Having faith works!
4 . Transformation: Achieving a big, audacious goal requires a willingness to shed parts of your old self in order to have a greater version of yourself emerge. Think of the process that a cocoon goes through to become a butterfly from egg to larva to pupa to metamorphosis to emergence to wing expansion. While writing this, I watched a video of this and the extreme effort each stage takes not unlike each stage of a big, audacious goal. This is all about starting from where you are at, accepting all of who you are (including your shortcomings) and patiently letting the process unfold as it must.
An example of this was when I was learning to become a facilitator in my early twenties. I had spent so much of my life seeking the approval of others that it was extremely difficult to get up in front of groups of people and challenge them to be their greatest selves. I was impatient with myself and how deeply rooted my need for approval was. It required me to boldly look at myself and the work that I needed to do to humble out my ego from being so focused on myself to transform my life to one of service to others and the world. I had to be willing to let go and reclaim the parts of me that I had been born with but forgotten. Let go of any limited view you have of yourself and harken back to that perfection into which you were born.
5 . Revel in Your Glory: When you complete a big, audacious goal — celebrate. Stop, look at what you did and who you’ve become. Look at the impact that you’ve had on others and the world. Our world is go, go, go, go. It’s important to take the time to acknowledge when great things happen and when we become a higher version of ourselves and to emblazon that on our hearts.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
Literary icon, Margaret Atwood said, “A voice is a human gift; it should be cherished and used, to utter fully human speech as possible. Powerlessness and silence go together.”
Earlier, I described how my journey has been one of finding and using my voice and that, through my graduate studies, I had an even stronger realization that my voice is a gift that I will continue to cherish and use. My voice has become the stylus through which my transformative songs of life are written as I work with myself and others to uncover their gifts and advance social change. Even doing this interview has allowed me to utter my words fully.
Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would like to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we tag them. 🙂
Gosh, if I were to have a private meal with my person, that would be awesome. It’s kind of challenging to narrow it down to one. After pondering the stage I’m at with my human development work (hosting a reality series with a large human development component), I choose Jeff Probst, host of Survivor.
The reason is that with our television series, The Gift, we have filmed two seasons and Survivor’s 50th season has wrapped. I’ve never missed an episode. It would be fascinating to talk with Jeff about how the series has evolved over time to the point where, now, contestants often leave talking about how they’ve grown and how being a part of it will change their lives forever. Even though they didn’t receive the money, they say that their lives have been transformed in a positive and meaningful way forever. This is the exact experience we had when filming The Gift and was echoed to us when we met several months later to check in with each of the cast members.
I’m of the view that anytime we set a big, audacious goal in life, we will come up against ourselves. This is exactly what happens on Survivor and it happened on The Gift. In Jeff Probst’s hosting, I see how he authentically and gently nudges people along their journey probing them to reflect on who they are.
I’d love to simply hear the evolution of the series over time along with Jeff’s own personal journey as a host/facilitator. He truly loves that kind of role just as I do. In a 2023 GQ Magazine article, he said, “There is nothing else that I could want out of my career . . . The cherry on top is that it’s about humans.” I wholeheartedly concur.
You are a person of enormous influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
I know I mentioned earlier that there’s a lot broken in the world. Conversely, there is so much joy to be had. I really like a pay it forward approach to life. This was instilled in me at a young age by my mother. Whenever she had done something wonderful for someone and they were expressing gratitude, she would encourage the person to do something kind for someone else in return.
Of course, the idea of being generous and kind has ancient origins that transcend cultures and philosophical approaches. After thinking of this, I poked around online to discover that there has been a Pay it Forward Day every April 28 since 2007 and that takes place in over eighty countries. It is a very grass roots movement. I think what would be really cool would be a targeted gathering of stories by starting a global TikTok account where people could post about their experiences of paying it forward. It’s a simple idea with profound implications.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
IndigeKin Production’s website is www.indigekin.com and I can be found on LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook.
This was very meaningful, thank you so much. We wish you only continued success in your great work!
Thank you for the opportunity. I feel honored to have shared about various aspects of my life (work, family, academic and especially my role as host and facilitator on The Gift reality tv series). The questions really gave me a lot to think about and energized me even more for the work that I do. I am grateful!
Social Impact Heroes: Why & How Dr Lolly de Jonge Of IndigeKin Productions is Helping To Change Our was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.