An Interview With Drew Gerber
Declutter your bedroom. The place where you sleep can have a big impact on your sleep, but also on your time awake. Having a bedroom that invites relaxation can improve the quantity and quality of sleep, in turn also improving how you feel, think, and function during the day.
We live in a time of great excess. We have access to fast fashion, fast food, and fast everything. But studies show that all of our “stuff” is not making us any happier. How can we simplify and focus on what’s important? How can we let go of all the clutter and excess and find true happiness? In this interview series, we are talking to coaches, mental health experts, and authors who share insights, stories, and personal anecdotes about “How Simplifying and Decluttering Your Life Can Make Us Happier.” As a part of this series, I had the distinct pleasure of interviewing Samia Estrada.
Samia Estrada, PsyD is a clinical psychologist who focuses on health and happiness. She has worked with a wide range of patients including adults, children, and families who have experienced trauma, chronic pain, severe mental illness, and couples hoping to improve their relationships. She has taught health practices internationally, and contributed to articles, newsletters, and book chapters on a wide range of topics. These days, Dr. Estrada continues to work with clients in a hospital setting, where she has implemented positive psychology and happiness classes, as well as in her private practice, and she also offers national and international retreats to those interested in learning new ways of improving their physical and mental health while incorporating awe-filled experiences.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dive in, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you share your “backstory” with us? What was it that led you to your eventual career choice?
My wellness journey began with an amazing teacher in junior college, Ms. Erickson. At the time, I was working, one of my very first jobs, as a waitress. A coworker of mine had taken Ms. Erikson’s nutrition class and shared with me that she had completely changed her own diet after taking that class. Not only that, but my coworker had gone through her cabinets and gotten rid of all her canned foods and all processed foods. That seemed very radical to me back in the day. I was intrigued, so I also took Ms. Erickson’s class. It wasn’t long before I, too, was going through my cabinets as well and revamping my grocery lists. Ms. Erickson was so passionate about health, and was such an amazing teacher, that I signed up for every single class she taught. Learning more about being (back then) vegan, now plant-based, and learning more about health and well-being was just the beginning of my journey that eventually became my passion. I followed my newfound interests, and my career took me to the path of positive psychology — learning about all the things we can do to lastingly increase the level of happiness and our life satisfaction — and eventually lifestyle medicine, which encompasses skills we can acquire and actions we can take to prevent and even reverse disease. I believe every interaction, every learning experience, every new opportunity has been a step in the right direction, leading me to where I am today, and I am excited to find out where my journey will take me next.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you started your career?
When I was in graduate school, I had the opportunity to go to Vietnam twice with a group of eager grad students and a kind and passionate professor. We traveled to remote locations in Vietnam to conduct health research and to teach health practices in rural towns. In my novice mind I was excited for traveling and seeing new things, but I was not expecting to find what I did. I knew we were going there to do research and teach, so I thought of us as the “helpers.” Never would I have imagined that it would be I who learned the lessons. During each of our 3-week trips, I saw gorgeous places, met some amazing people (many of whom I still keep in touch with today and I’m honored to call my friends), and saw first-hand how children and adults, living in homes without floors, walking without shoes on their feet, and not having electricity or potable water in their homes, were happy, loving, and satisfied with their life. I saw small children running freely in the streets, without a care in the world, chasing chickens and smiling at me every time they passed by. I saw animals allowed to roam free, not constrained by fences. I remember once asking how the owners knew which chickens were theirs and being told that the owners make a clicking noise in the evening and the chickens all head to their respective home on their own. I was in awe of how carefree and happy people and animals were. It makes sense, of course, first off, being in rural towns where people are surrounded by nature, being in a community where they all know each other and look out for each other, and despite having many very significant stressors, such as poverty, disease, and at times even the lack of basic resources, always expressing gratitude for what they do have and being kind and generous with one another. These are all things that we know increase happiness, it makes sense. I met some of the most inspiring and selfless people on those trips, and I really learned a lot about this concept we are talking about, which is living a simple, uncluttered, yet happy life.
Are you working on any exciting new projects now? How do you think that will help people?
Yes, I am! I am excited to have recently started offering adventure travel retreats. These retreats are not your average retreat, instead they offer opportunities to learn and apply wellness and happiness skills with a group of like-minded individuals, while at the same time seeing amazingly beautiful new places, doing activities that challenge your body and your mind, and doing something good for the communities that you visit. In 2023 we are planning to visit places like Holbox, Mexico, Bangkok, Thailand, and Rajasthan, India. I think it’s important not only to learn the skills, but to know how to apply them, and that is exactly what we do.
Can you share with our readers a bit about why you are an authority on the topic of “How Simplifying and Decluttering Your Life Can Make You Happier”?
This has been a long journey for me and an ever evolving one. I not only live and model the things I teach, but I’ve also had my own setbacks and barriers. We are all human, and it’s important to know that those setbacks are going to happen. It’s about being willing to keep going, self-compassionately. If I can help someone learn ways to be happier, declutter the material and emotional baggage that holds us down, and avoid some of the pitfalls or gracefully get back up after a setback, I consider it a success.
I’ve been teaching about happiness for more than 5 years, in-person and virtually. I constantly look for ways to enhance the way I teach, or the way people can become familiar with the material. More recently, I have become more involved in lifestyle medicine, and I have incorporated some of that material into my curriculum, as I believe those things go hand-in-hand. Being an authority on a topic also means that you stay on top of new research and developments, which I continuously do. In this field, you have to be a lifelong learner!
Ok, thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the main focus of our interview. We live in a time of excess. We have access to so much. But studies show that all of our “stuff” is not making us any happier. Can you articulate for our readers a few reasons why all of our possessions are not giving us happiness?
We can think of happiness in a couple of different ways. The first is hedonic; hedonia refers to having more pleasure and less pain. The second, eudemonia, which refers to self-actualization. According to Cui et al., (2021), hedonia can be considered a precursor to materialism, and materialism can then be the extrinsic goal that can be seen as the road to happiness. Unfortunately, hedonia does not lead to lasting happiness. While you may get an initial increase in happiness when the material item is obtained (think of getting a new car, a new pair of shoes, etc.), the level of happiness tends to drop back to baseline over the course of time. In fact, people are even more likely to behave in unethical ways to get this extrinsic goal, then causing people to feel guilt or regret for going against their morals. More importantly, the more materialistic a person, the less they report happiness and wellbeing. Eudemonia, on the other hand, is not considered an extrinsic goal that can be obtained, but rather a way in which one can actualize. Eudemonia is more about flourishing, growing, and developing into the best version of yourself while enjoying the process. It is achieved by experiences, not by material items. Eudemonia is shown to have a more lasting effect on happiness. It makes sense, if we think of spending money on a trip, for example, instead of a material good, we know that there is the anticipatory excitement and planning of the trip, the trip itself, and later the reminiscence of that trip, so it is easy to see how that experience would have a more lasting effect than, say, buying a fine pair of shoes or the latest model TV. But, even more than that lasting experience, the in-the-moment happiness is much greater when you have an experience compared to when you gain a material possession. Additionally, recent research has found that the children of people who accumulate more clutter are at higher risk for mental health illness such as depression, anxiety, and increased stress. In a study by researchers Nix and Dozier (2022), it was concluded that children of parents who had a more cluttered bedroom, not only were more likely to report psychosocial symptoms, but showed more significant hoarding symptoms. So, not only is one to be concerned about the effect clutter has on the individual, but also how it is affecting family members as well.
On a broader societal level, how do you think this excessiveness may be harming our communities and society?
On a societal level, we see that decluttering can be a catalyst for more deliberate consumer behavior. We know that every time we buy a product, a whole process is at work. That process can have an influence on our environment, from the location where the materials were sourced or extracted (at times damaging our natural resources), to the person who is doing the labor (possibly being exploited), to how the item gets packaged and transported. Every step in the process is a possibility for damaging our environment and reinforcing a consumer culture.
One can wonder if decluttering will then give way to attaining more stuff to fill the now decluttered spaces. But, in a study by Muster et al. (2022) it was concluded that people who declutter tend to not want more material items after decluttering, instead they long for more “enriching relationships, fulfilling experiences, and improved heath and wellbeing in their life.” Additionally, the process of decluttering gave participants the opportunity to reflect on their use of materials and goods and to find ways to limit their use. This could very well be a start of a shift to a more sustainable lifestyle. In fact, it could even mean that manufacturers may start to think of more sustainable production and manufacturing methods.
The irony of struggling with happiness in modern times is glaring. In many places in the world today, we have more than ever before in history. Yet despite this, so many people are unhappy. Why is simplifying a solution? How would simplifying help people to access happiness?
Many people believe that having more, showing affluence, or getting the next best thing will create happiness. When a space is cluttered and disorganized, the mind is also cluttered and disorganized. The person is living in a type of chaos. Additionally, relating happiness to possessions tends to lead to comparisons and the feeling of never quite achieving the level of desired satisfaction. There will always be the person who has more or better things. That continuous endeavor to reach happiness by means of having more or better possessions is draining and unfulfilling. However, when that need and desire is let go of and, instead, the person can live minimally without those attachments, it can feel like a great weight being lifted off their shoulders and it allows for eudemonia to happen. Eudemonia is an intense feeling of joy that is felt within and does not come from attaining material things. Instead, it comes from having meaning in life, from growth, from passion, and self-fulfillment. Eudemonia is achieved instead by experiences, and experiences give us more in-the-moment and lasting happiness. Ridding yourself of clutter allows more freedom to have these fulfilling experiences.
Can you share some insights from your own experience? Where in your life have you transformed yourself from not having enough to finally experiencing enough? For example, many people feel they don’t have enough money. Yet, people define abundance differently, and often, those with the least money can feel the most abundant. Where in your health, wealth, or relationships have you transformed your life?
This is such a great question, because it goes back to what I was saying about having pitfalls and learning to get back up. In the field of psychology, there are many different directions one can go. I like having variety of jobs and wearing a lot of different metaphorical hats. My passion for the field, and the various things I do, sometimes get in my own way, because I become involved in too many work-related projects, leaving little time for other meaningful things in my life. We need a balance. Recently, I found that, although my work-life was thriving and exhilarating, I was feeling exhausted and stressed. I was not finding enough time to spend quality time with my loved ones, or to exercise, meditate, spend time in nature, engage in activities that provide awe or flow, and care for my body the way I’d like. You see, my life was becoming cluttered with work, and as much as I loved the work I was doing, it was making me feel depleted. The work I loved so much was taking away from the other things I love and need. So, I had to balance that better and declutter. I have scaled back on some work-activities and hung some of my hats for now. That has allowed me to go outdoors more, to hike, to swim, to love, to play…and I’m still working on that balance, but I already feel much happier, richer, and more at peace.
People, places, and things shape our lives. For example, your friends generate conversations that influence you. Where you live impacts what you eat and how you spend your time. The “things” in your life, like phones, technology, or books impact your recreation. Can you tell us a little about how people, places, and things in your own life impact your experience of “experiencing enough?”
You are absolutely right! People, places, and things do shape our lives. In fact, I think that, in a very big way, the path I have taken has been influenced by the people I have met. Going back to the very beginning, that junior college teacher made a profound influence in the path I am still on, many years later. I surround myself with all kinds of people, I believe that’s how we learn and grow. Still, my closest friends are like-minded individuals. They have similar values and live a happy life. It really is true that emotions are contagious. When you are around someone who is negative and grouchy, you yourself begin to feel negative and grouchy. But, when you surround yourself with happy people, guess what happens? You also feel happy! Another thing I do is to manage the amount of media I take in. Listening to the news, for example, can cause a lot of stress for me, and sometimes even feeling of impending doom. So, what I’ve done is to stop watching the news. I stay up to date with a daily newsletter that just provides me the highlights of what is happening around the world. If I want to know more about a specific topic, I can click on the link and read a full article, but most times the highlight is enough to keep me in the know without feeling overwhelmed. I rarely watch TV, and when I do, I watch movies or shows that either make me feel good or challenge my thinking. Mostly, I do things that make me feel good in my mind and my body; spend time with my loved ones, my work, move my body, laugh, cook delicious meals, spend time in nature, and discover new places and new adventures. To me, that is what helps me feel rich.
This is the main question of our interview. Based on your experience and research, can you share your “five ways we can simplify and declutter our lives to make us happier?”
That is an excellent question, these are the ways I would suggest decluttering:
- Practice mindfulness. Practicing mindfulness helps us to declutter the mind and get rid of that mindless chatter. Decluttering the mind allows for more positive experiences and less anxiety and stress. There are some types of mindfulness and meditation specifically to clear the mind clutter, such as heartfulness meditation and zazen, but mindfulness, in general, clears the mind. Try different ones and see what you like.
- Declutter your bedroom. The place where you sleep can have a big impact on your sleep, but also on your time awake. Having a bedroom that invites relaxation can improve the quantity and quality of sleep, in turn also improving how you feel, think, and function during the day.
- Declutter your datebook. Many times, we feel that if we are constantly busy, we are worthy, indispensable, or productive. However, what we know is that keeping busy in that way actually diminishes your ability to think critically about things, to be creative, and to just ponder and daydream. We perform tasks much better when we are able to have moments of free time allowing our mind to just wander. Self-care sometimes entails doing more things, such as a warm bath or massage but, many times, it involves doing less.
- Get rid of things you don’t need or love. Most of us are familiar with Marie Kondo and know her work; getting rid of the things you don’t use, or things that no longer bring you joy, acknowledging your gratitude to those items for the happiness they once brought, and letting them go so they can make someone else happy. Marie Kondo is onto something, because having a decluttered space decreases feelings of anxiety, stress, and depression, and allows for more feelings of tranquility and freedom. We hold on to things for emotional reasons and many times do not realize that it is those very things that are weighing us down. Remembering that the memories are within us, and not in the material things, can help to let go of certain items with “sentimental value” that have been in our space for a long time and no longer bring happiness.
- Do things that are opposite to clutter. When we think about the difference between hedonia and eudemonia we can boil it down to material things or experiences. We know that experiences bring us more happiness and joy of life, so get out there and have some fun. Being in nature is one of the best things you can do, and relationships are another, so find some good places to go and create new memories with your loved ones, your body and mind will thank you for it!
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
I recently sat in the audience at a conference where I heard Diane Ackerman speak. She proposed that high schoolers be asked to do 1 year of volunteer work after high school, working on environmental issues, in exchange for 2 free years of college. When I heard that, it blew my mind. What a great idea! High schoolers are strong, energetic, and full of passion. It would benefit our world and it would benefit high schoolers, who would in turn learn more about the problems our world is facing and be part of the creative change, engage in meaningful altruistic actions, and be able to go into college with a lot less debt. I think that plan is genius! So, my idea is to talk to people about her plan as much as I can. Who knows? One day it could be heard by just the right person, one day it could happen.
Thank you so much for these insights. This was so inspiring, and so important!
About The Interviewer: For 30 years, Drew Gerber has been inspiring those who want to change the world. Drew is the CEO of Wasabi Publicity, Inc., a full-service PR agency lauded by PR Week and Good Morning America. Wasabi Publicity, Inc. is a global marketing company that supports industry leaders, change agents, unconventional thinkers, companies and organizations that strive to make a difference. Whether it’s branding, traditional PR or social media marketing, every campaign is instilled with passion, creativity and brilliance to powerfully tell their clients’ story and amplify their intentions in the world.
Samia Estrada On How Simplifying & Decluttering Your Life Can Make You Happier was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.