Professor Ross White Of Queen’s University Belfast On How to Go Beyond Your Comfort Zone To Grow Both Personally and Professionally
An Interview With Maria Angelova
Be Anchored — anchored in the present moment where your life is unfolding and able to recognize that your thoughts and feelings are momentary experiences that come and go. Too often we wander off to past regrets or worries about the future. Instead, be where your feet are.
It feels most comfortable to stick with what we are familiar with. But anyone who has achieved great success will tell you that true growth comes from pushing yourself out of your comfort zone. What are some ways that influential people have pushed themselves out of their comfort zone to grow both personally and professionally? As a part of this series, I had the pleasure of interviewing Ross White.
Dr Ross White is a Professor of Clinical Psychology at Queen’s University Belfast and the founder of Strive2Thrive consultancy organization. He is an expert in supporting the mental well-being of people working in high-performance settings. Ross is the author of several books including ‘The Tree That Bends: How a Flexible Mind can help you thrive’.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we start, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood backstory?
I grew up in a small town called Moira in County Down, Northern Ireland. Moira sits in the valley of the river Lagan and the land there is good for farming. I was a middle child with both an older and younger sister. My parents (both now retired) were a horticulturalist and a midwife respectively. I’m very fortunate to still be in regular contact with many of my childhood friends. I grew up during a 30-year period of political unrest — euphemistically referred to as ‘The Troubles’ — when there was sectarian violence between the Republican (mainly Catholic) community and the Loyalist (mainly Protestant) community. I’m proud to say that when I was 21 years of age, I voted to support of the Good Friday Peace Agreement that helped to bring an end to ‘The Troubles’.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
Michel de Montaigne, the French renaissance philosopher, once wrote “Nothing fixes a thing so intensely in the memory as the wish to forget it”. These words, beautifully capture the paradoxical impact that trying to get rid of our thoughts and emotions can have. Rather than being eradicated, the impact of these experiences gets amplified.
Is there a particular book, podcast, or film that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?
I’m a big fan of Christopher Nolan’s movies. I recently rewatched ‘Interstellar’. The film, set on an earth threatened by food scarcity, takes a deep dive on the mind-binding physics that govern our universe as the characters travel into space in search of a solution. But the film also serves as a poignant reflection on love, loss and the relentless passage of time. There’s a wonderful moment in the movie when Coop, the lead character played by Matthew McConaughy, says: “We used to look up at the sky and wonder at our place in the stars. Now we just look down and worry about our place in the dirt”. That line encapsulates both the profound importance of looking after our planet, and the existential struggles we face when we realize that we only have a finite amount of time to achieve our hopes and aspirations.
Let’s now shift to the main part of our discussion. Let’s start with a basic definition so that all of us are on the same page. What does “getting outside of your comfort zone” mean?
I’m glad we can reflect on the definition and its implications. ‘Comfort zone’ is a phrase that I choose not to use. My concern is that ‘comfort zone’ belies the considerable discomfort that can arise — particularly in the long run — from making supposedly ‘safe’ choices. In my work with clients, I prefer to use the term ‘conforming zone’ to describe how the choices we make may end up conforming to the restrictive stories that our minds generate about what we can do. Comfort isn’t your enemy, conforming to skewed ideas about yourself is.
Can you help articulate a few reasons why it is important to get out of your comfort zone?
I contrast staying in the ‘conforming zone’ with getting into our ‘transforming zone’. The ‘transforming zone’ allows us to transcend typecast notions of ourselves, so we can do instigate change in our lives. It allows us to branch towards being the person we wish to be, rather than being dictated to by challenging thoughts and feelings. By moving into the ‘transforming zone’ we get to connect more fully with our sense of purpose and the contribution we want to make to the causes that matter to us. This is important because the transformation we want to see in the world begins with us transforming the relationship we have with thoughts and feelings that have held us back.
Is it possible to grow without leaving your comfort zone? Can you explain what you mean?
It depends on what we mean by ‘grow’. It’s an interesting word. There’s an assumption that ‘to grow’ is necessarily a good thing. In recent years, there has been push-back about the supposed value of ‘growth’ in various fields. For example, the centrality of ‘growth’ in contemporary economics has been keenly debated, with some commentators arguing for ‘post-growth’ fiscal policies. It may be a prescient time to debate the need for a ‘post-growth’ approach to human psychology. We live in a world that is dominated by an ‘always on’ doctrine of self-improvement, and the need to ‘grow’ our social media followings, ‘grow’ our business, ‘grow’ our investment portfolio, ‘grow’ our self-esteem… And a pernicious impact of this is that the present moment is devalued in anticipation of an imagined better future. All that focus on ‘growing’ may be stunting our ability to be happy now.
For many of the people I work with, real transformation occurs when they are willing to accept — with self-compassion and kindness — that they are already enough as they are. If that sounds counter-cultural, it’s because influencers, gurus and product manufacturers are literally capitalizing on our insecurities. They’ve a vested interested in ensuring that we try to buy our way out of the outward manifestations of our insecurities, rather than tackling them at root cause. Whether it’s a swankier home, better golf clubs, age-defying cosmetics, or more exclusive clothes labels, products are all heralded as the elixir for a more confident and contented ‘you’. But dealing with our insecurities is not about obtaining more stuff, it’s about changing the relationship we have with ourselves.
If you were to ask me instead ‘Is it possible to transform without leaving your conforming zone?’, my answer would be ‘No’. The ‘transformation zone’ sits on the other side of the conforming zone. And it is the willingness to experience feelings of vulnerability that marks the gateway between conformity and transformation. Unless we are prepared to risk stepping onto the metaphorical ‘skinny branches’ we will miss out on the sweetest fruit that resides there. In this sense, vulnerability is possibility — the possibility of experiencing a more fulfilling life.
Can you share some anecdotes from your personal experience? Can you share a story about a time when you stepped out of your comfort zone and how it helped you grow? How does it feel to take those first difficult steps?
The writing of my latest book ‘The Tree That Bends: How a Flexible Mind can help you thrive’ is an example of a recent time when I shifted from my ‘conforming zone’ into the ‘transforming zone’. For many years my writing has been focused on writing articles for scientific journals to report the findings of research studies that I’ve conducted. It’s a style of writing that I became very accustomed to. But I’m deeply passionate about also sharing the psychological expertise that I have accumulated with wider audiences. In June of 2022, I started to write a monthly newsletter called ‘5 to Thrive’ that I distribute through my social media channels and a growing subscription list. The concept is simple — 5 minutes of reading, 5 resources to help people thrive: 1) a quote, 2) a deep dive into a psychological concept, 3) a featured documentary, 4) a book recommendation, and 5) an invitation to the reader to try something in the coming month. That year, I also started work on the book manuscript that would become ‘The Tree That Bends: How a Flexible Mind can help you thrive’, which aims to help the public develop psychological flexibility to both excel and feel well. In writing the book, I had to find an authorial voice that allowed me not just to explain but also entertain. I could have the most valuable insights in the world, but readers switch off if their interest isn’t retained. Although I was blessed to work with a fantastic team at Quercus publishing, developing my ability to write in that style was at times a confronting process. I experienced doubts and fears along the way — would the manuscript come together as a coherent whole; would the material be relatable; would I hold the readers’ attention? I also had to make sacrifices in how I allocated my time, some of which I’m still grappling with today. But I’m immensely proud that I was able to see the project through. I can honestly say that writing the book was a transformative experience for me.
What are your “five ways to push past your comfort zone, to grow both personally and professionally”?
- Be Anchored — anchored in the present moment where your life is unfolding and able to recognize that your thoughts and feelings are momentary experiences that come and go. Too often we wander off to past regrets or worries about the future. Instead, be where your feet are.
- Be Willing — willing to accept your mind’s story-generating tendencies and willing to turn towards, rather than away from, the emotions associated with those stories. You have thoughts and feelings; they don’t have you.
- Be Empowered — empowered to commit to actions in line with your purpose and personal values. What is it that is simply too important for you not to implement change?
- Be Self-compassionate — how might an Imagined compassionate supporter bolster you in your moments of doubt?
- Be Receptive — receptive to the support of other people and sources of advice you trust. You don’t have to do it alone.
From your experience or perspective, what are some of the common barriers that keep someone from pushing out of their comfort zone?
A lack of psychological flexibility. Psychological flexibility (which is a combination of being Anchored, Willing and Empowered elements listed above) allows us to change our relationship with our thoughts and emotions. We often think of emotions as something to be mastered, controlled or got rid of. But emotions can carry important messages about issues that require our attention, yearnings that aren’t being met, and sources of inauthenticity in our lives. Don’t shoot the messenger. Understand the message.
There’s also sense that we need to be relentless in pushing for transformation. Sure, being tenacious, committed and persistence can certainly play an important role. But being relentlessly relentless, and disregarding your wellbeing, will lead to burnout.
There is a well-known quote attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt that says, “Do something that scares you every day”. What exactly does this mean to you? Is there inherent value in doing something that pushes you out of your comfort zone, even if it does not relate to personal or professional growth? For example, if one is uncomfortable about walking alone at night should they purposely push themselves to do it often for the sake of going beyond their comfort zone? Can you please explain what you mean?
To me, Eleanor Roosevelt’s quote is an appeal to embrace the vulnerability that can arise when we challenge our mind’s stories about who we are, and we are capable of. It’s about choosing not to be beholden to our fears. Yes, we need to be appropriately prudent and considered, but the thing we need to be most cautious of is being too cautious.
Importantly Roosevelt doesn’t say ‘Do more activities that scare you every day’, I think this is a crucial point that is often overlooked. For some people, doing less might be the ‘something’ that scares them most. Doing less of the supposedly tough stuff can be scarier than the prospect of doing more of it. Less work, less self-criticism, less time on social media, less self-improvement work… I encourage readers of this article to be vigilant not just to the things they readily say ‘No’ to doing, but also the things that they all too quickly say ‘Yes’ to doing. Choosing not to do the things we default ‘Yes’ to, can be a profound form of transformation. Whether it’s requests to take on yet more responsibilities; perfectionistic urges to stay glued to a computer screen; or well-established rules that have been governing our lives, opting not to comply may be the scariest, but most important step.
Of course, a key question is ‘why would we want commit to making ‘scary’ changes?’ I’m a great believer that change for change’s sake should be forsaken. But in life, we can all recognize that there are issues simply too important for us not to implement change — our sense of purpose, worthy causes, personal values we want to demonstrate etc. In such cases, we should be emboldened to do what it takes, even though doubt and fear inevitably will show up.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
Helping people to relent more — not less. As I mentioned above, being relentlessly relentless will lead to burnout. We need to: relent to the need for rest; relent to experiencing difficult emotions; relent to the realization that we are not going to get everything done; and relent to our yearning for a life full of purpose and vitality. Relenting isn’t about giving in or being weak, nor is about kowtowing to unrealistic demands from others. It’s about being flexible and pragmatic in how we invest our time and effort. Relenting, when the situation requires it, is playing it smart. Jim Whittaker, the first American to summit Everest, famously remarked: “If you aren’t living on the edge, you’re taking up too much space”. The slogan for the ‘Relent More’ movement will be: “If you aren’t living on the edge, you’re going to be healthier and more effective”.
Is there a person in the world whom you would love to have lunch with, and why? Maybe we can tag them and see what happens!
Alas, Michel de Montaigne and Eleanor Roosevelt are no longer with us. I’m a fan of Matt Haig’s books. He writes with great humanity. So, a bagel with Matt would be great.
How can our readers follow you online?
@RossGWhite on Instagram
@RossGWhite on X
@rossgwhite.bsky.social on BlueSky
LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/prof-ross-g-white/
Webpages — www.rossgwhite.com / www.strive2thrive.co.uk
Thank you so much for sharing these important insights. We wish you continued success and good health!
Professor Ross White Of Queen’s University Belfast On How to Go Beyond Your Comfort Zone To Grow… was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.