Neurodiversity in the Workforce: Gloria Folaron Of Leantime On Why It’s Important To Include Neurodiverse Employees & How To Make Your Workplace More Neuro-Inclusive
An Interview With Eric Pines
Normalizing the conversation. Make asking how people like to learn, like to be communicated with, and what’s important to them a regular experience.
Research suggests that up to 15–20% of the U.S. population is neurodivergent. There has been a slow but vitally important rise in companies embracing neurodiversity. How can companies support neurodiversity in the workplace? What are some benefits of including neurodiverse employees? To address these questions, we are talking to successful business leaders who can share stories and insights from their experience about “Neurodiversity in the Workforce”. As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Gloria Folaron.
Gloria Folaron is a trailblazing figure at the intersection of science-based workplace experience solutions, technology, and neurodiversity. As a nurse-turned-product manager, she brings a unique perspective and passionate commitment to innovation. Folaron is the founder and product manager of Leantime, a platform that embodies her dedication to prioritizing neurodiversity in project management.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Before we dive in, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your ‘backstory’ and how you ended up where you are?
My backstory wouldn’t be complete without tapping into my first career. I went into nursing because, as I was growing up, I saw the difference a great nurse made in our lives as we were in and out of hospitals for life threatening conditions both my mother and brother have had. When you connect a large amount of empathy with an insatiable drive to make things better, you get me. I was an ER nurse, in research, in pediatrics, and worked within other acute areas too. There is something about coming alongside another person, in a vulnerable moment, and helping them find a way through. This is an experience unmatched in value.
So, how did I go from helping people in a hospital to project management? I didn’t discover how much I loved solving problems until I started seeing bigger problems in healthcare that I couldn’t solve working 12 hours on the floor as a nurse. I eventually partnered with my technical cofounder during a startup weekend event where we built my first healthtech startup.
We were using Lean startup methodologies, which suggest that you take a big board and fill it with sticky notes. As I was trying to organize myself this way, I was drowning in sticky notes and struggling to figure out what were the best priorities. What should I be working on to start my day? How did what I was doing boil down to the thing I was working towards?
Now, I love the Lean canvas and think it’s a great way to start a business plan and manage business development. What is it not great for — by itself? Figuring out how to execute on the decisions that you’re making and tying them into the day-to-day work. I knew how to execute. I’d been an ER nurse. You get to a point where there can’t be hesitation — when you know what to do, you do. But here was something so different, in a new language (business speak), and no clear framework to follow beyond business proposition and business development steps.
Bringing things full circle, two years ago I was diagnosed with ADHD. Looking back, it’s clearly something I’ve had my whole life. For someone with ADHD, and, really, for all human beings, not having a good grasp on the purpose, the why, and the how makes staying motivated hard.
But companies aren’t setting these things up for employees. You’re lucky if you know how what you’re working on is accomplishing the company goals. Statistics state around 7% of employees know and understand a company’s strategy and what they need to do to accomplish it. But what are we working towards? This is where employees lack a clear understanding. You can’t make good decisions if you don’t know what the end goal should look like.
And the tools aren’t making this any easier for companies in this still remote/hybrid climate. I’ve tried a variety of tools. Some of them I’ve found so overwhelming that I quit before I even finished the onboarding flow and just went back to my notes and to-do list. The problem? To-do lists don’t scale. They don’t communicate the vision to the team. They don’t help the team see how what they do relates back to the company’s success.
I’m dreaming of a world where people feel good about the work they do; that they understand the value they have and that they contribute — that work becomes a place of fulfillment again and not something people are waiting for the clock to tick down on.
You are a successful leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?
Empathy:
I recently had the opportunity to collaborate with someone who opened up about the challenges they’ve faced in life. During our conversation, I assumed the role of a compassionate listener, offering open-ended questions to encourage them to share more. As our discussion came to a close, she playfully remarked, “So, will you be sending a bill for this therapy session?”
On another occasion, I recall someone telling me, “It’s as if Gloria can peer into your very soul.” While this statement may appear somewhat dramatic when describing a trait, it underscores a crucial aspect of empathy and validation. Often, emotions are left unspoken in conversations, possibly because delving into feelings can be uncomfortable. However, the truth remains that we are fundamentally emotional beings. Even when logic attempts to override our emotions, our feelings can profoundly influence our experiences and behaviors. Not every moment requires a deep emotional connection, but sometimes, simply being truly seen provides the space needed to acknowledge those emotions.
When one is allowed the freedom to express their emotions, a sense of liberation begins to take root, granting the freedom to be one’s authentic self. What can make this process challenging for many, though, is the discomfort that accompanies witnessing someone else’s discomfort. However, a true leader possesses the ability to guide and support others in their journey towards self-discovery and growth.
Vulnerability:
Daniel Coyle’s book The Culture Code, delves into the crucial concept of trust. In it, he discusses a paradigm-shifting perspective on trust and vulnerability. Contrary to conventional wisdom, Coyle’s research posits that trust is not the precursor to vulnerability; rather, vulnerability precedes trust. We build trust and then we find vulnerability. It becomes “safe.”
This is a big part of why I’m not shy about my ADHD and why I share the details about the business strategy, about what’s concerning, and what’s going well. It’s why I bring a fidget toy into meetings with me and even bring extras for others to share. This last one has been fun to watch because I find it often results in very quickly seeing who else has fidget energy — whether they’re nervous, hyperactive, or otherwise. It underscores the holistic nature of our brains; attempting to compartmentalize and restrict its functioning into separate facets fails to harness its full potential.
Persistence (to almost a fault):
When I was growing up, I remember my parents calling me a pitbull. They’d say, “When Gloria gets something in her head, she’s like a pitbull. She bites onto it and you can’t get her to unlock her jaws.” I’ve never been one to readily accept limitations imposed by others.
Interestingly, this quality is one of those “weaknesses turned strengths” that can shine in a job interview. The reality, though, is that this gives me a determination and power through mentality that maintains even when the world is falling around us. It’s part of what made me a great nurse. The stress doesn’t rock me because I know I’ll find a way through.
Can you share a story about one of your greatest work-related struggles? Can you share what you did to overcome it?
In a previous role, I found myself in the midst of a challenging situation. I stepped into a role marked by a significant transition and impending product release; yet there were no set dates, there was a foggy understanding of remaining work, and a conspicuous absence of key individuals who held the critical “why” knowledge needed to navigate the situation. What I encountered was two teams in conflict, each operating in silos, with little awareness of the other’s efforts, but a strong sense that the other team was somehow sabotaging their success.
From this tumultuous environment, I embarked on a journey that ultimately resulted in achieving a transition that should have taken 18 months in just 6 months. While I took immense pride in this achievement and the hard work of the teams, what truly exhilarated me and had the most significant impact was the burgeoning empathy that blossomed between the once-opposed teams. I humorously referred to myself as “Switzerland” during this period, representing a neutral party in the conflict. Much of my time was spent listening as team members vented their frustrations about the other side. However, I didn’t merely absorb their complaints; I led with and steered our conversations toward empathy-focused perspectives. I would openly ponder, “I wonder if they’re expressing these concerns because of xyz…”
This approach often incited initial arguments with frustrated individuals, but that was never my primary intention. Through these debates, the discourse evolved into thoughtful discussions. A moment of curiosity would emerge, leading to questions like, “If not that, then what might be the issue?” Gradually, the tension subsided, allowing me to introduce insights from the other team’s perspective. It took about six months of deliberate effort, but in the end, the teams transformed from adversaries to allies, defending one another rather than fighting.
What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now?
I’m genuinely thrilled about our upcoming AI feature because it represents a shift in the traditional approach to workplace productivity, drawing inspiration from the challenges often faced by individuals with ADHD. For those living with ADHD, motivation is significantly influenced by two key factors: their emotional state and their level of interest in the task at hand.
In traditional work settings, we typically estimate task effort and allocate assignments based on availability, task priority, and our best guess regarding the workload involved. In the realm of software development, we commonly employ metrics like story points and effort size. However, this approach can be limiting.
Our innovative AI feature initiates with the provision of task recommendations based on established best practices. This initial step alleviates the cognitive load of the perennial question, “What should I work on first?” But we take it a step further. We empower users to rate how they feel about a task prior to starting work.. Over time, this data allows us to tailor task recommendations according to individual preferences, accounting for their likes and dislikes. Subsequently, we intelligently pair tasks, considering optimal combinations for efficient distribution and alignment with each employee’s skill set and growth trajectory.
By infusing a human-centered and engagement-focused approach into productivity and work assignments, we take a significant stride toward shifting the spotlight away from mere outputs and toward prioritizing the well-being of the individuals driving these outcomes. Research consistently underscores that people are at their most productive when they work on tasks that align with their strengths and passions. Yet, the challenge lies in the lack of effective tools for employers to measure, monitor, and harness their employees’ full potential in this regard.
Fantastic. Let’s now shift to our discussion about neurodiversity in the workforce. Can you tell our readers a bit about your experience working with initiatives to include neurodiverse employees? Can you share a story with us?
Unfortunately, I have not worked for an employer that prioritizes initiatives like this because its visibility is often missed and it often goes under the radar. However, I believe that change starts with me. I share my own experiences and circle of safety. My transparency has resulted in many others sharing their own neurodivergence with me.
This all goes back to the vulnerability that creates trust principles from Daniel Coyle. Even if your company is not able to set the bar, you can set the bar for yourself. For me, it is being mindful of the fact that my honesty gives me the opportunity to create a safe space and set a different example than the stigmas that surround neurodivergence.
This may be obvious to you, but it will be helpful to spell this out. Can you articulate to our readers a few reasons why it is so important for a business or organization to have an inclusive work culture?
Studies already support that companies that are diverse make more money, take bigger risks, and are generally more likely to outperform other organizations. But just like the world needs lots of people willing to do lots of different things to function, so does a business and so do teams. Some out there may call ADHD a superpower, and I won’t do that here because honestly, we’re all operating at varying degrees of challenge and it can be incredibly hard. But some of the reason it is so hard is because the world is not set up for the way our brains work.
We often seek new things and experiences. We tend to be mind mappers, thinking in larger pictures. Or, we tend to be hyper specialists, experts and obsessed with something so very specific. We know everything about so many things. We can be generalists. We often aren’t afraid of risks. We often think out of the box. We follow trends and patterns and can be great early adopters. We multitask and many of us thrive in chaos and bring order to it. We have a bias towards action and when we love something we’re often all in.
These are things that are important to a team and to businesses. In fact, estimates are around 30% of entrepreneurs have ADHD, dyslexia, or another form of neurodivergence AND if you have ADHD, you’re 300x more likely to start a business. How much more innovative would companies be if their teams had more innovation, startup like, thinkers? Maybe we’d have less large companies dropping off decades later because they failed to keep up with changing times. R.I.P. Blockbuster.
Can you share a few examples of ideas that were implemented at your workplace to help include neurodiverse employees? Can you share with us how the work culture was affected as a result?
We’re still in growing mode and so our team is fairly small and some of my ideas have not yet been implemented. When we get there, though, “new hire” gift boxes will include a variety of fidget toys and noise canceling headphones. At one role, I used to bring fidget toys and went through a phase of polishing rocks and palm stones. I’d bring those in for people to fidget with during meetings and it helped to normalize the kinetic experience needed in processing information — to the point that I realized even one of our leads started bringing his own to meetings.
Cameras on is and will always be optional. Standardized agenda formats for meetings will identify the meeting type. This will help team members mentally prepare for the type of effort required for each meeting. For example, a brainstorming meeting will require a different level of engagement than a planning meeting. “Meeting hours” when possible so people can have predictable heads down time as needed.
Fostering a culture of good intentions by assuming that someone didn’t mean to come across harshly. It also means being open to clarifying communication intent without being confrontational, and Fostering a culture of experimentation. This means allowing people the freedom to try their out-of-the-box ideas. This can lead to new and innovative solutions.
What are some of the challenges or obstacles to including neurodivergent employees? What needs to be done to address those obstacles?
We’re invisible. Unlike many other forms of diversity, the average person is unlikely to see us because the only differences between us and another person is that our brain operates a little differently. That leaves companies with only a few options:
- Create a psychologically safe culture and environment that promotes diversity of thought and trust.
- Invest in products, like our platform, that prioritize these things and make the default state rather than a disclosed state (this matters to us vs the employee having to report it).
How do you and your organization educate yourselves and your teams on the concept of neurodiversity and the needs of neurodivergent employees? Are there any resources, training, or workshops that you have found particularly helpful?
We may have an advantage here. I was diagnosed with ADHD two years ago but looking back, it’s clearly something I’ve been managing my entire life. That said, I am only one person with ADHD and my ADHD doesn’t look like the ADHD of my technical cofounder and it won’t look exactly like anyone else’s because there’s a human mixed in with the diagnosis. Representation matters. My daughter was recently diagnosed as AuDHD (autistic with ADHD) and I spend time in the community resources. I follow folks in the community that speak to it. I read and review studies and work to understand what others are struggling with that may not be specific to me.
But understanding the needs of someone who is neurodivergent or understanding the condition isn’t enough and trying to get to that place requires a lot of work, time, and listening. That last piece, though… Listening? That’s where companies often fail, and they fail there because they don’t stop to create a safe enough space, a safe enough culture, where someone can stand up and say, “Hey, because I’m autistic, it takes a lot of energy and causes me a lot of stress to always have my camera on in all these Zoom calls all day.”
Instead, you get a culture that penalizes you for not being on camera all the time. Instead, you get penalized because people don’t stop to think about which tasks are best suited for someone beyond “is this in their skill set?” And, something in my skill set doesn’t mean I’m the best person for it. If a company is looking for resources, I would start with creating a safe culture. Again, I highly recommend Daniel Coyle’s book Culture Code as a learning place. Trust and safety starts with vulnerability and that has to come from the top.
This is the main question of our interview. Can you please share five best practices that can make a business place feel more welcoming and inclusive of people who are neurodivergent?
1 . Normalizing the conversation. Make asking how people like to learn, like to be communicated with, and what’s important to them a regular experience.
2 . Establishing clear expectations and requirements. This can be as simple as setting an agenda for a meeting in the calendar invite or more detailed tasks lists.
3 . For remote cultures, don’t require video to be on during virtual meetings. For someone who is autistic, eye contact can feel very personal and overwhelming. When video is required, not only do they see everyone on this level but they also have to see themselves, which can be really uncomfortable, increase their Zoom fatigue, and decrease their safety and productivity. I can’t count how many times I’ve been in a call and someone is very adamantly enforcing cameras on and it just feels so tone deaf and non inclusive.
4 . Create support networks: Whether this is pairing folks together with mentors, creating a group meeting environment, or giving them a place to talk about their challenges and share. You can’t support what you don’t know.
5 . Hire diversely. If you don’t have neurodivergent representation at your company, you need to be asking, “Why?” If you’re not hearing about it or know who those employees are, you’re either missing the diversity or you’ve created an environment that isn’t safe enough for someone to share.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share a story about how that was relevant in your own life?
“A certain darkness is needed to see the stars,” — Osho
I often felt misunderstood throughout my childhood. I experienced a lot of hardship, and I often felt like an outsider. This was even before I was diagnosed with ADHD. Now, I know that many other people with ADHD feel the same way. I don’t think suffering is necessary to learn, but it wasn’t until I learned that I could be the star in the certain darkness that I found some peace in being misunderstood.
I didn’t know I had ADHD. I didn’t know that some of my challenges and boredom in school and jobs were due to my hyperactivity, quick processing, and impulsivity. I didn’t know that uprooting my life for the sake of adventure was part of my dopamine-seeking behavior. I didn’t know that much of the anxiety I had was because, when I went to make a decision, I saw all the multiple paths that would open up and then would see all the steps behind each one and then how could I decide? It was all ADHD related.
If I had been diagnosed and supported when I was younger, I have no doubt that my life would have been different. In fact, I had panic attacks for a period of time due to the anxiety from over-processing information. I now know that women are often misdiagnosed with anxiety disorders when they actually have ADHD. While the darkness and hardship were painful, I learned and developed the skills to hopefully help make the future a little less dark for others. I am now an advocate for ADHD awareness and acceptance. I want to help others who are struggling to understand themselves and their ADHD.
You are a person of enormous influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
If I could inspire a movement, I’d create an “empathy” movement. Studies have been demonstrating that both empathy and trust have been dropping in society. An empathy movement would promote the importance of taking a breath before replying to anything anyone says. Without this breath, we too quickly interject judgements, opinions, and interrupting thoughts. Listening and really grasping what someone is saying to you, before filling in the gaps, just helps us see people as they are.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
I regularly blog on our company website https://leantime.io, and I’d love to connect with folks over LinkedIn as well! https://linkedin.com/in/gloriafolaron.
Thank you for the time you spent sharing these fantastic insights. We wish you only continued success in your great work!
About the Interviewer: Eric L. Pines is a nationally recognized federal employment lawyer, mediator, and attorney business coach. He represents federal employees and acts as in-house counsel for over fifty thousand federal employees through his work as a federal employee labor union representative. A formal federal employee himself, Mr. Pines began his federal employment law career as in-house counsel for AFGE Local 1923 which is in Social Security Administration’s headquarters and is the largest federal union local in the world. He presently serves as AFGE 1923’s Chief Counsel as well as in-house counsel for all FEMA bargaining unit employees and numerous Department of Defense and Veteran Affairs unions.
While he and his firm specialize in representing federal employees from all federal agencies and in reference to virtually all federal employee matters, his firm has placed special attention on representing Veteran Affairs doctors and nurses hired under the authority of Title. He and his firm have a particular passion in representing disabled federal employees with their requests for medical and religious reasonable accommodations when those accommodations are warranted under the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 (ADA). He also represents them with their requests for Federal Employee Disability Retirement (OPM) when an accommodation would not be possible.
Mr. Pines has also served as a mediator for numerous federal agencies including serving a year as the Library of Congress’ in-house EEO Mediator. He has also served as an expert witness in federal court for federal employee matters. He has also worked as an EEO technical writer drafting hundreds of Final Agency Decisions for the federal sector.
Mr. Pines’ firm is headquartered in Houston, Texas and has offices in Baltimore, Maryland and Atlanta, Georgia. His first passion is his wife and five children. He plays classical and rock guitar and enjoys playing ice hockey, running, and biking. Please visit his websites at www.pinesfederal.com and www.toughinjurylawyers.com. He can also be reached at eric@pinesfederal.com.
Neurodiversity in the Workforce: Gloria Folaron Of Leantime On Why It’s Important To Include… was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.