An Interview With Vanessa Ogle
Give it a Rest: Really — take a break. Brain breaks aren’t just for long study sessions. Sometimes, we just need a moment to step away and regroup. This includes vacations and a healthy work-life balance. We need a sense of self outside of work. When this isn’t a priority, breakdowns in communication start, irritability spreads, and the work environment suffers.
Toxic work environments can have a significant impact on employees’ mental health, productivity, and overall job satisfaction. From poor communication and office politics to bullying and burnout, toxicity in the workplace can manifest in many forms. What are the most effective strategies to address and overcome these challenges? How can organizations and employees work together to create healthier, more supportive work environments? In this interview series, we are talking with leaders, HR professionals, organizational psychologists, business leaders, and experts about “Navigating Workplace Toxicity: Strategies for a Healthier Work Environment.” As a part of this series I had the pleasure of interviewing Landon Alexander.
Landon Alexander is a Learning and Development Leader, Corporate Trainer, and DEIB Champion recognized for cultivating inclusive work environments and designing training programs that drive team growth. Their approach values insights from frontline team members, whose perspectives are key to understanding workplace culture. By blending strategic leadership with a commitment to equity, Landon helps organizations build cultures where every team member feels empowered to thrive and contribute meaningfully.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
No way, seriously. Thank you so much for including me -truly my pleasure.
I officially started working around 15 or 16, but I was slinging lemonade on the mean streets of Marshall, Missouri back in 2nd Grade. My first real gig was in hospital sanitation as a freshman in high school. My parents gave me the summer before to find a job if I had any plans on getting a car of my own, or if I intended on asking to use their vehicles. They let me know that they would find one for me if I didn’t. I spent the summer being relaxed and carefree.
It’s worth mentioning at this point in the story that my mother is a healthcare professional. Looking back, it should not have been a shock when I came home one day near the end of summer and my parents told me to head straight to the HR department of our local Hospital. Where they were “expecting me.”
After working there for a short while, I ran plates, bussed tables, and served at a family-style restaurant through graduation. During most of high school, I was holding down two jobs on top of activities. I worked as Gym Facility Staff and as a Kids’ Camp advisor, all before college. Buckle up, there’s more. I then managed some back-of-house operations and was the lead server at a wine bar. I even worked in theaters throughout the United States as both a performer and crew. My career continued to evolve as I managed shoe and fast fashion retail and even worked in banking for some years. Eventually, I took on permanent leadership roles in PR, Community Engagement, D.E.I.B, and Corporate Learning and Development as a natural progression from years in management. It has been an incredible 20+ year journey full of career headaches, heartbreaks, and highlights but it has led me to some discoveries. I love finding out how people work and the processes we all have behind those decisions. I have my undergrad in Theatre and Dance, and it made sense to me that the elements of Learning and Development are a lot like those of crafting any art. The final piece takes so many people working together seen and unseen. I also taught dance for over a decade and I apply every piece of that to who I am now. Building plans, working with teams and stakeholders and all the while trying to sell myself and my acumen. I now manage multi-location services, lead corporate teams, speak, and also travel for on-site training. My priority; developing focused programs that enhance performance and drive results — doing my best to successfully integrate all those pieces. All those parts that make up my past and present. A journey, -absolutely, but look at where I am now, and, so lucky to see where I’m heading.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
Absolutely, hahaha. One of the more interesting things that happened to me involved a surprise visit from my CEO at the time. I was managing a flagship medical aesthetics studio in Soho, New York City, for a corporation just leaving its early startup phase. By that point, I’d joined every available committee and had implemented training and organizational measures at my location. The studio was seeing positive returns for both clients and our internal teams based on those changes.
One morning, I received a message telling me the CEO would be stopping by my location. I immediately informed my team and began a walkthrough. The studio was in great shape, and I added some final touches, which was fortunate because, 15 minutes later, she walked in — followed by the entire C-suite of the company. She made a beeline for me to briefly say hello before the entire crew hurried off to our conference room. I proceeded with the day. I had completed a check-in with the team and was heading out for lunch when the conference room door opened. The CEO and her team emerged, she came over, sat down across from me at the front desk, and handed me a working script and a partially designed front-of-house handbook. She thanked me for the work I’d done so far, and let me know they were impressed and wanted me to review this draft.
I was honored and immediately agreed, but as I started to skim the guide and script, I could feel myself speeding through it, realizing it was, well, bad — very, very bad. Incredibly unrealistic, actually. Tuning back into reality, I focused just as she was asking if I’d go over the script with her and demo it. Of course, I said. Suddenly, everyone on her team was stationed around us with legal pads, phones, and laptops open, all ready to take notes. Quickly finishing the script, it felt stiff and contrived — beyond the typical awkwardness of reading cold. It was impersonal and didn’t exactly match the tone the company was trying to set.
The CEO looked at me and said, “I’m ready when you are.” I wasn’t sure what came over me, but I couldn’t bear the idea of either performing or teaching that script. So, I closed it, slid it gently across the desk, and asked, “If it’s all right with you, could I show you what I have my team do, and then we can go over the script?” The room went silent — you could hear a pin drop, lobby music aside. I could feel the team’s eyes dart between us as if watching a high-stakes volley at Wimbledon. Without much hesitation, she said, “That would be great. How do we start?”
Still in shock by how open she seemed to the idea, I proceeded to role-play, finally putting my undergrad theater degree to use, which I’m sure my parents would be happy to hear. We hit a point in the new script where team members were instructed to stand whenever a client walked in and I did not agree. I had my team stand when the clients needed instruction after their welcome, at the desk, while explaining the intake process to a first-time client. My CEO interjected, “Everyone should stand, right? (whenever a client walks into the building) That’s good, isn’t it?” This was followed by a chorus of affirmatives from her team. And that’s when it happened.
I said, “No.
For a moment, as everyone turned to look at me, I doubted myself and thought “Oh, okay. I’m getting fired.”
The CEO looked at me, clearly wanting an explanation. I quickly followed up, saying, “It’s too formal. We offer a luxury service, but we want a welcoming, professional atmosphere, I do have my team stand, but at a different time.” I paraphrase, but you get the idea. She squinted slightly, nodded, and crossed her arms. She tucked her chin between her thumb and index finger offering a few “MmmHmm’s.” Finally saying, “Oh, yes. Good point..” A collective sense of relief could be felt in the atmosphere. I continued to walk her through the client journey, offering opinions supported by results. My approach, though still based on company expectations, was a far cry from the script I’d been handed, and I was confident in my thoughts and approach.
Eventually, the corporate team moved on to other walkthroughs and I headed back to work with my team. Just as I was finally heading out for lunch, a team member grabbed me and said, “They’re waiting for you.”
“Waiting for me?”
“Yeah, in the conference room.”
I was surprised, but before I knew it, I was knocking on the conference room door and being let in. Inside, I found the CEO skimming documents on her laptop while verbally wrapping up items on the agenda, asking for numbers and logistics. A Department Head looked up and said, “Hey, Landon, grab a seat.” I couldn’t read the room at first, but it became clear that my entrance had interrupted their flow. The CEO wrapped up her conversation with the company’s creative director about a design element and then turned to me. She thanked me for my work and asked if I’d like to help create a new front-of-house script.
I said yes and tried to play it off as nonchalant and grateful, the latter being more successful. Once the meeting ended, everyone exchanged goodbyes and headed out, and I could feel the rest of my team’s relief — the kind that only comes after the higher-ups leave. I was finally on my way to grab some food, when the VP of People Operations pulled me aside to tell me he was impressed by my ability to say no and offer sound reasoning and solutions. He added that not everyone is as sure of themselves in those situations and that my ideas made sense. The CEO had specifically asked if I was working that morning after a team call and told them they’d do an offsite at my studio to observe as soon as she found out that I was.
For some reason, his compliment landed differently that day. I had an a-ha moment, a realization that my skill set had finally come together — all the mistakes, the highlights, polished and staring me in the face, I know what I’m doing. You’ve had 3 Million jobs, give or take a few. This is a big part of what you do. What you know. I knew then that I was ready to elevate my career in major ways, and it’s been an interesting ride ever since.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
I was managing a couple of retail cellular stores at the time, and as management, we were required to host at least one in-store event each month. Most people kept it simple — maybe setting out some water bottles or grabbing a few dollars’ worth of balloons and candy from the local dollar store to hand out to “lucky” customers. Unfortunately, anyone who knows me knows that “basic event” isn’t in my vocabulary. It’s a problem, haha, but I was even worse about it back then.
It’s worth noting that we didn’t have much of a budget. We could technically be reimbursed, but the spending amount allowed was so low it wasn’t even worth mentioning. I was always in competition with myself, hosting major events two or three times a month. I mean, I work hard, but my anxiety works harder. I kept pushing myself to do something bigger and better each time, genuinely spending hundreds of dollars I didn’t even make, all for the sake of feeling the gig.
I was in a meeting and feeling exceptional at my job, cocky even. The picture of insanely misguided and misplaced confidence So much so, that without thinking I bragged about a hypothetical event I was working on, my pie-in-the-sky project. Except, I was 100% explaining it as a fully fleshed-out event. I could hear the crazy coming out of my mouth, but couldn’t stop. I promised upper-level administration an event complete with face painting, character actors, food vendors, balloon animals, games, and storytelling for children. And I had the audacity to say to them it was happening in a week. A week! I lost my mind. I must have blacked out.
So now I have to make it happen. Because obviously, I refuse to fail. I was going to produce a heavily themed event for children and families. With no money. And Limited resources. But this would be perfect. For the sake of avoiding any potential issues with certain well-known litigious organizations, let’s just say the theme featured a beloved animated film, starring a vocally talented, adventure-loving princess from an island.
After a riveting week filled with; nail-biting, cold calls, anxiety, 72 hours straight of balloon animal practice, finding an actor, ordering and customizing a costume, wrangling decorations, marketing, and even tricking my family into helping — I, I mean we, pulled it off. When the dust settled and the groups of excited parents and kids had all left, after putting out an endless number of small metaphorical fires. I learned a lot. I thought to myself, maybe a simple candy dish isn’t such a bad idea after all.
Is there a particular book that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?
A book that resonated with me is Lies My Teacher Told Me by James Loewen. It was required reading for a college course. I was already aware of media bias, but reading this book — and then continuing the discussion on my own, — the infrastructure of bias and its orchestrations are far more insidious than people care to think. The book tackles that alongside the dangers that come with the dissemination of information that is virtually unchecked.
As a Black gay man and DEIB (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion and Belonging) champion. I’ve grown up seeing and experiencing this, even today. You learn a lot of lessons too soon in terms of bias and misinformation. So spotting it, calling it, and setting clear boundaries is important for not only our mental and physical well-being but also the health of the workplace and its culture. The health and safety of teams and the optics of a brand or company as well. All possible contributing factors to toxicity in the workplace. Most importantly, to simply work on acknowledging it and correcting it, is to be better people, as we work and commune with one another.
Do you have a favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Do you have a story about how that was relevant in your life or your work?
I do. A little life lesson quote from choreographer, Bob Fosse, “Don’t dance for the audience; dance for yourself.” I love it so much, I even have it tattooed. To me, it’s a powerful reminder for everyone in all things. If I’m going to do something, If I’m only moving for others and not myself, am I even going anywhere? Me giving my 100% for me, benefits everyone. When I am onstage performing, for example, an audience is paying to see me not just execute technically proficient movements, but truly they want to see joy on stage. A skilled professional that is living in the moment, 200% themselves. In their element, is a powerful thing. Hone your craft and share it.
Ok, thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the primary focus of our interview. Let’s start with a simple definition so that all of us are on the same page. What does workplace toxicity mean?
Workplace toxicity is any workplace that is plagued by substantial personal conflicts between employees, This could include verbal or non-verbal abuse, bullying, or harassment, all of which contribute to a negative — or “toxic” — work atmosphere.
Can you describe a time when you personally encountered or helped resolve workplace toxicity?
Sometimes you enter a toxic workplace and don’t realize it right away; other times, the toxicity escalates rapidly, exampled by one small conflict snowballing into many. I experienced this while in high school, working at an after-school program for K-8th grade students. Initially, I received positive feedback and felt generally accepted. I wasn’t perfect by any means, I was a 16-year-old and this was my second job, but unlike much of the early work we did in our youth, I enjoyed it. One day, I sensed a shift. I remember my boss began making comments about me to others while smiling to my face, nitpicking my work despite no decline in quality, and even asking uninvolved employees to “watch and report back” on my performance.
It became difficult to be at work, and even harder to keep my output at 100%. My boss seemed dissatisfied with everything I did. Things came to a head when my boss pulled me aside at the start of a shift to inform me I was being let go. I was definitely surprised, though two years later, I learned that I wasn’t imagining things. The day I was let go, I saw another high school classmate walk in — a person who, it turns out, was hired to replace me and started that very day.
Two years later, this person confided that they had mentioned to my boss, whom they already knew, that they were looking for a job. My boss responded by telling them they could have my position and that they’d “take care of it.” So, I was let go. A tough lesson to learn early on.
What were the key signs that the environment was toxic?
My intuition was the first sign. I, unfortunately, didn’t trust my instincts. We all have off days at work, but this felt different. No matter what I did, when I spoke with my boss, there were awkward conversations where I constantly felt like I was saying the wrong thing. Other team members began to notice and comment on it. The general atmosphere became increasingly uncomfortable.
What are some of the most common causes of toxic work environments, and how can leaders recognize these issues before they become pervasive?
Sure thing, I can give you four.
1. Poor Communication: This is likely responsible for over 90% of the decline in workplace social and cultural health. Even a single unresolved miscommunication can snowball, fostering resentment or misunderstandings that create a toxic atmosphere.
2. Lack of Leadership: Effective leaders are instrumental in building a supportive team culture. Team dynamics today are vastly different from even a decade ago, so leaders need to understand their teams’ evolving needs and not rely on a one-size-fits-all approach. Questions to consider: How am I supporting my team? Does my leadership foster trust and open communication?
3. Workload Imbalance: Who does what work and why? While healthy competition and high productivity are positives, they can backfire when “star” employees are overburdened or when goals are met only by exploiting loopholes at employees’ expense. Overworked employees, regardless of the industry, are at high risk of burnout.
4. Misaligned Office Policies & Politics: Sometimes, what seems like a good idea to management ends up backfiring. Policies that made sense at one time may no longer fit, and smart businesses should be willing to adapt. Office politics are also tricky, as they often involve unspoken rules. When someone deviates from “protocol,” it exposes underlying issues. It’s nuanced, but when ignored, these dynamics become toxic too.
What steps can employees take to address workplace toxicity if they feel uncomfortable or unsupported by leadership?
I always tell my teams, “There’s NO proof, without proof.” Documentation is key. At the first sign of something off, send yourself an email from your work account — keep it simple, state the facts, no extra fluff. Additionally, after conversations with anyone that sets off your spider senses or with any kind of disciplinary action or conversation, follow up by emailing them a quick thank-you note that restates what you discussed and any next steps. Be brief, professional, and hold up your end of whatever was agreed. This way, you have a record of exactly what was said and what you committed to.
Act immediately — memories can fade or shift over time, and documenting helps ensure you have your side straight. Go up the chain of command if you need to, but always with that documentation.
What role does mental health play in navigating workplace toxicity, and how can both employees and organizations prioritize mental wellness?
Honestly, it’s top-tier in importance. We now know more about the mind-body connection than ever before. It’s not only about how the work we do makes us feel, but, more importantly, about how we feel doing the work. We all go to work, often underpaid, on days when we’re dragging our feet or watching our morning bus leave the stop because we missed it by 30 seconds. Some days, it feels like everything just goes wrong. This is the daily grind for most people in the workforce, no matter the field.
Imagine, a situation throwing in those everyday inconveniences and work stressors. It isn’t a pretty picture. A workplace that doesn’t respect boundaries and supports a poor work-life balance. If that happens to your best employees, they’re not going to stick around.
So what can organizations do? Start by paying fairly — it promotes a real sense of trust and reduces financial stress, which is one of the biggest mental health triggers. And have actual, tangible resources for mental health, not just a digital pamphlet. Bring in experts, and offer recreational activities people want. If you don’t know what they need, ask them. It’s free, and it shows you’re serious about supporting the team.
Can you share some strategies or practices that individuals and teams can implement to create a healthier and more productive work environment? Please share your “5 Strategies For A Healthier Work Environment”?
- Communication is Everything: First and foremost, foster a culture where communication is not only valued but encouraged. Keep an open mind, and remember that people can communicate effectively with one another as long as there are ground rules. The first of these is trust. If you work to build trust and keep things transparent, teams will begin to thrive. Leaders, lead by example, show, don’t just tell employees how to have open and honest communication that is work-appropriate.
- Boundaries, Let’s Set ’Em: We all need to know our limits to avoid getting dangerously close to them — or worse, crossing them. As an individual, state clearly (but professionally) what behaviors are acceptable to you. As a leader or business, set boundaries clearly from the start. They’re often in handbooks and company guidelines for a reason. Set the tone, and ensure leadership at all levels adheres and exemplifies them.
- Mindfulness as a Mission: Practicing mindfulness is invaluable. Simply put, being mindful means trying to stay present and in the moment. We’re bombarded with stimuli that rarely allow us to stay focused, and often it’s hard to recognize how much this affects us. When we practice mindfulness, we are purposefully staying open, which influences how we move through our daily lives. It gives us the chance to see with fresh eyes and discernment, keeping us from making snap judgments.
- Give it a Rest: Really — take a break. Brain breaks aren’t just for long study sessions. Sometimes, we just need a moment to step away and regroup. This includes vacations and a healthy work-life balance. We need a sense of self outside of work. When this isn’t a priority, breakdowns in communication start, irritability spreads, and the work environment suffers.
- Thank You, Next: Sometimes, despite our best efforts and intentions, we have to step away for something better. You don’t have to settle for a job that makes you miserable. I am well aware that circumstances and comfort don’t always align when it comes to survival. We do, at times, have to do what we have to do, but leaving a position that’s killing you due to stress is often better than staying for convenience or just the “feeling” of not being able to do better. You deserve a job that respects and supports you. It’s not going to get better by hoping it will. I’ve been there, and walking away from a toxic job was one of the best decisions I have ever made.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good for the greatest number of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger.
Oh wow. No pressure at all. I would like to affect how we truly interact with one another. It’s alarming to see how easily and quickly we can assimilate by separating ourselves from one another. We have our heads down and focus on whatever digital device we need for the moment. We barely look up when we hear someone yell or ask for support. How easy it is to shut ourselves down. How easily we learn to turn off our human. How can we ignore and remove ourselves from those emotions and feelings that keep us attached? We forget that other people are going through the same thing, just trying to survive, and that a little bit of kindness can go a long way. That’s what I would like to focus on.
We are very blessed that some very prominent names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them.
Honestly, I have two…is that allowed? I would love to sit down with Telfar Clemens and discuss the business model behind their incredible brand, Telfar. They just get it. From marketing to pricing to company values, it seems so clear and like they are building an empire and culture that is current and literally culturally aware. Second, I would love to pick the brains of the PR/Marketing team behind groups like KATSEYE. I am such a fan of clever minds that listen to consumers. It’s no different than the importance of listening to the employees of brick-and-mortars to find out what’s working, what can be done better, and what’s being asked for. When businesses or marketing teams listen to these voices, the only place to go in general is forward, in an upward trajectory.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
They can find more information on my LinkedIn at www.linkedin.com/in/landonalexander or at landonalexander.com, which is currently under reconstruction.
Thank you for these fantastic insights. We greatly appreciate the time you spent on this.
Thank you so much for having me Vanessa; it’s been my pleasure.
About The Interviewer: Vanessa Ogle is a mom, entrepreneur, inventor, writer, and singer/songwriter. Vanessa’s talent in building world-class leadership teams focused on diversity, a culture of service, and innovation through inclusion allowed her to be one of the most acclaimed Latina CEO’s in the last 30 years. She collaborated with the world’s leading technology and content companies such as Netflix, Amazon, HBO, and Broadcom to bring innovative solutions to travelers and hotels around the world. Vanessa is the lead inventor on 120+ U.S. Patents. Accolades include: FAST 100, Entrepreneur 360 Best Companies, Inc. 500 and then another six times on the Inc. 5000. Vanessa was personally honored with Inc. 100 Female Founder’s Award, Ernst and Young’s Entrepreneur of the Year Award, and Enterprising Women of the Year among others. Vanessa now spends her time sharing stories to inspire and give hope through articles, speaking engagements and music. In her spare time she writes and plays music in the Amazon best selling new band HigherHill, teaches surfing clinics, trains dogs, and cheers on her children.
Please connect with Vanessa here on linkedin and subscribe to her newsletter Unplugged as well as follow her on Substack, Instagram, Facebook, and X and of course on her website VanessaOgle.
Navigating Workplace Toxicity: Landon Alexander On Strategies for a Healthier Work Environment was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.