An Interview With Vanessa Ogle
Developing. Companies should ensure that a learning environment exists in which employees can discover and nurture their interests and talents to grow both personally and professionally at all stages of their careers. Companies should also ensure that training opportunities are equitable, convenient, and accessible for both team members that work in the office and those that are on the front line.
Toxic work environments can have a significant impact on employees’ mental health, productivity, and overall job satisfaction. From poor communication and office politics to bullying and burnout, toxicity in the workplace can manifest in many forms. What are the most effective strategies to address and overcome these challenges? How can organizations and employees work together to create healthier, more supportive work environments? In this interview series, we are talking with with leaders, HR professionals, organizational psychologists, business leaders, and experts about “Navigating Workplace Toxicity: Strategies for a Healthier Work Environment.” As a part of this series I had the pleasure of interviewing Brian K. Reaves.
Brian K. Reaves serves as chief belonging, equity, and impact officer of UKG. In his role, Brian leads the company’s global belonging, diversity, and equity program, expanding existing initiatives while working to strengthen a culture built on trust, fairness, and equality, so every U Krewer can thrive in every stage of their career. Prior to UKG, Brian served in senior leadership roles at Dell and SAP, having started his career journey as a software developer for Xerox. With this background, he has a unique perspective on how to implement BE&I at the corporate level, developing data-driven solutions for workforce and human capital management challenges.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
I grew up in South Central Los Angeles in the 1960s when “life outcomes” for young Black men were not great. Due to the lack of socio-economic opportunity in communities like mine, most of my friends became deeply involved in gangs and/or drug dealing. That said, due to the love and attention of my family, I was able to stay focused on my education and eventually had the opportunity to attend UCLA to study Math and Computer Science which led to me having different career opportunities (as a Software Engineer, Technology Executive, and DEI&B/Social Impact Executive) and life outcomes which resulted in my ability to change the socio-economic trajectory for myself and my family. In looking back at my past, I honestly believe that many of my friends could have also had different life outcomes if their respective family members and society afforded them the opportunity to make different choices. Most of my friends were just as intellectually gifted as me but did not see any other path in life outside of the ones they chose.
I passionately believe that my life experience is very common around the world where, in a world of 8 billion people, there are “haves” and “have nots” and the “have nots” truly have equitable amounts of talent and potential but they lack an equitable amount of opportunity. I have spent a good part of my career focused on providing and enabling opportunity for “have nots” to become “haves” as I believe that, by enabling opportunity on a global scale, society will be positioned to achieve its full potential.
Throughout my career, I have had an opportunity to do just that…first as a young Engineer at Xerox corporation, then spending 20+ years a technology executive within the Silicon Valley at small start-ups and larger companies such as SAP where I served as the global head of products and innovation for the SAP studio next-generation technology team. During my time as a software engineer and technology executive, I spent time thinking about how I might bring the same level of intellectual discipline and mindset to the work of belonging, equity, and social impact.
In 2016, I made the official career pivot and had the privilege of taking on executive DEI&B-related leadership roles at SAP and Dell Technologies before moving into my current role at UKG. As chief belonging, equity and impact officer of UKG, I have the opportunity to guide the company’s global belonging, equity, and social impact programs, expanding existing initiatives while working to strengthen a culture built on trust, fairness, and equality, so every U Krewer and employee around the world can thrive in every stage of their career. As part of my role, I also have the opportunity to ensure that UKG’s industry leading Human Capital Management and Workforce Management innovations include features and functionality that accelerate belonging, equity, and impact for our customers which in turn accelerates them towards greater business outcomes and being a “great place to work for all”.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
My career spans over three decades so a lot of interesting stories come to mind. That said, the thing that has been most interesting/fascinating to me from a career perspective was to have the privilege to meet, work closely with, and/or to be influenced by, so many iconic leaders during my career. The list includes Former Xerox CEOs David Kearns and Ursula Burns, mainframe computer Pioneer and Amdahl Founder Gene Amdahl, SAP Co-Founder Hasso Plattner, Former SAP CEO and current ServiceNow CEO Bill McDermott, Dell Chairman and CEO Michael Dell, Great Place to Work CEO Michael Bush, and UKG CEO Jen Morgan (who I currently have the privilege to work for). The list is not exhaustive, but I can remember many interactions and experiences with each of those leaders and walked away from those interactions/ experiences with valuable knowledge and inspiration. Most importantly, all those leaders share characteristics that I value…they are all “For All” leaders and understand that innovation is born out of a growth mindset and inclusive business practices.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
Growing up, I genuinely believed in the motto “dress for success”. So, when I received my first career breakthrough (as an Engineering intern at Xerox), I showed up for my first day of work in a suit and tie. The Xerox offices in El Segundo were on the upper floors so I had to ask the building receptionist to call up to have someone come down to get me. I took a seat and waited. After about 20 minutes, I went back to the receptionist to make sure someone was still coming down. She called back upstairs, and in a couple of minutes, I saw a person who I had seen 15 minutes ago come to the front desk. I stood up and said…” Hello…are you looking for Brian Reaves?” The person said…” Yes…do you know where he is?”. I said…” Yes…I am Brian Reaves”. The person burst out laughing and said they saw me earlier, but I was dressed too nicely to be an Engineer, so they did not think it was me!”. The person said they thought I was “an Accountant or a Banker!” That day, I learned an important lesson about the importance of paying attention to all aspects of the work environment…including dress codes!
Is there a particular book that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?
One of my favorite books is called “Drive: The Surprising Truth about What Motivates Us” by Daniel Pink. I was introduced to the book by an executive coach after a discussion pertaining to how to best motivate team members. At that time in my career, I was the COO of the Business Analytics Technologies (BAT) Group at SAP and was tasked with “affirming operational excellence” within a team of senior executives who had not worked effectively together in the past. Up to that point, I was challenged with getting the executives to build a level of trust with one another which was critical to our business unit achieving its goals. In the book, Pink argues that the traditional carrot-and-stick approach, relying on external rewards and punishments, is outdated and ineffective. Instead, he introduces a new paradigm of motivation based on intrinsic factors, autonomy, mastery, and purpose. The book not only helped me better understand what motivates me to be successful but also gave me the necessary “tools” for positioning each of the executives for individual success as well as overall team success. Together, we achieved remarkable success and reached our goals pertaining to operational excellence.
Do you have a favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Do you have a story about how that was relevant in your life or your work?
One of my favorite quotes is by M.D. Arnold and states “A good leader leads the people from above them. A great leader leads the people from within them.” My father was a Marine, and I fondly reflect on several conversations he and I had (when I was young) about leadership. The conversations were mostly focused on my sports activities, but he made it clear that the same leadership skills required to be a great teammate on the basketball court or the baseball field were just as important within business. I often thought about those conversations as my career elevated from an individual contributor to a manager. I strongly believe that an org chart does not define leadership as a true leader must earn the right to have trusted followers. And the best way to earn that right is for a leader to meet their team members where they are and figure out how to best motivate each of them to achieve their personal goals in alignment with the collective goals of the team.
Ok, thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the primary focus of our interview. Let’s start with a simple definition so that all of us are on the same page. What does workplace toxicity mean?
Workplace toxicity refers to an environment where negative behaviors like bullying, manipulation, harassment, excessive negativity, and lack of respect become the norm. And it impacts employee well-being, productivity, and overall morale. The result is a workplace culture that is a stressful environment and a company culture that is unhealthy.
Can you describe a time when you personally encountered or helped resolve workplace toxicity?
I spent 17+ years as an entrepreneur in the Silicon Valley from 1991 to 2008 which was a crazy time due to rise of the internet and the associated dot com era. Sadly, during that time I personally encountered several workplace environments that were incredibly toxic and unhealthy for one’s well-being.
What were the key signs that the environment was toxic?
Many of them are identifiable behaviors such as unfair treatment or discrimination; exclusionary behavior or cliques; lack of workplace trust among team members; poor communication and lack of transparency; prominent levels of stress and burnout; and high turnover. In many cases, the companies with pervasive toxicity had leadership cultures where profits were significantly prioritized over people.
What are some of the most common causes of toxic work environments, and how can leaders recognize these issues before they become pervasive?
The most important key in identifying and recognizing these issues is really the center piece of the high trust behaviors that Great Place To Work has identified which is “listening.” As a leader you must be able to ask and answer questions without bias, without assumptions and without being defensive. And then, being open to empathetically listening to what your team members share about their experiences. If you have created a workplace environment built on trust and transparency, your team will truthfully and willingly share what is going on and will help you create solutions to improve the culture of the team and company.
In addition to one-on-one or team listening, leaders should also leverage Employee Resource Groups (ERGs). Members of ERGs are some of the company’s most engaged and dedicated employees and they also have their pulse on how employees are thinking and feeling. Using this untapped resource can help prevent toxic environments because they can often identify challenges before they become problems. If structured correctly, ERGs can be great sources of innovative solutions that directly address the needs of your employees as well as the customers and markets you serve.
What steps can employees take to address workplace toxicity if they feel uncomfortable or unsupported by leadership?
If an employee is at a company that is focused on success through the retention and development of its employees, the best route for the employee is to communicate their concerns through the companies established human resource channels. Employees should also give feedback to their company through employee engagement surveys or other established ways to provide feedback. If an employee is at a company that does not value feedback or wants to address pervasive toxicity, they should find another company that does. In this case, the Great Place To Work certified companies list is a wonderful place to start to identify companies that value employees and culture
What role does mental health play in navigating workplace toxicity, and how can both employees and organizations prioritize mental wellness?
This is such a great question because many organizations believe that free pizza or game rooms on site make their environments psychologically safe. While perks like that are “nice to haves”, they sometimes overshadow the root causes of workplace toxicity. As leaders, what we must focus on is creating “for all workplaces” where all employees feel a sense of belonging and where psychological and emotional safety are stated and demonstrated priorities. Human resources also play an important role by making sure that employees have access to programs and resources that are adaptable to their unique need…like paid time off, mental health services that fit into schedules for both frontline and office-based employees, as well as services that impact their personal well-being like Employee Assistance Programs and financial fitness support.
Can you share some strategies or practices that individuals and teams can implement to create a healthier and more productive work environment? Please share your “5 Strategies For A Healthier Work Environment”?
As I shared earlier, the basis for a “for all workplace” depends on the trust established between the leadership team and employees. Such workplaces also create environments where employees have pride in their work and have an elevated level of camaraderie amongst team members. Based on 30+ years of research, Great Place To Work has identified a set of “9 High Trust Behaviors” that leaders consistently exhibit to establish a “For All” workplace. The following are 5 of those behaviors which are necessary to cultivate a healthy, productive workplace environment.
- Listening. Listening is the foundation of all High-Trust behaviors. True listening is proactively seeking the opinions, feedback, and questions of others. It is creating open systems for receiving that input and remaining accessible to others while staying humble, vulnerable, and in a growth mindset. Employees must feel like they are not only heard, but that the leader will act on the information they share with you. A great example of listening is employee surveys. Often, employees invest their time in these surveys and the leadership team either takes no action or does not communicate what actions are going to be taken as a result of that feedback. Not taking or acknowledging needed action based on feedback is a sure way to erode trust and employee morale.
- Caring. This seems like a no brainer, but all humans want to feel cared for and that includes in the workplace. Leaders need to show empathy and compassion for the people they work with. When people feel cared for, their full potential is unleashed, and they are committed to the company’s mission and to reaching their personal and professional goals. This requires leaders to take time to understand the unique needs of their employees and what is important to them. An example of caring is showing genuine interest in people’s lives, both in and out of the office, and helping them to balance and integrate their work and life needs.
- Celebrating. This is what you call taking time to smell the roses. When leaders take the time to celebrate individual and team achievements, they send a clear message that the members of their team are valued and seen. Leaders should genuinely recognize and reward both personal milestones and organizational successes at the individual, team, and enterprise level in specific and unique ways. Celebrating includes creating and maintaining a team atmosphere of camaraderie and fun in which people are publicly commended for upholding their company’s values and helping the company achieve its purpose.
- Developing. Companies should ensure that a learning environment exists in which employees can discover and nurture their interests and talents to grow both personally and professionally at all stages of their careers. Companies should also ensure that training opportunities are equitable, convenient, and accessible for both team members that work in the office and those that are on the front line.
- Hiring. Hiring is two-fold in its impact on preventing a toxic culture. From day one until the time of retirement, leaders should strive to create an exceptional team member experience — ensuring that all team members are warmly welcomed into the organization. This can be accomplished in many ways including welcoming a new hire with personal touches (for example, a decorated cubicle or a welcome gift), introducing new team members to ERGs that they might be interested; setting up one-on-one meeting with business partners they will be working with; or even hosting a lunch during their first week to introduce them to their new team members.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good for the greatest number of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger.
I firmly believe that, in a world of 8+ billion people, there exists an equitable amount of talent but not an equitable amount of opportunity. Most human beings have the will to succeed and just need to be empowered with skills that can change the economic trajectory of their lives. I would love to see a movement where those of us “haves” commit to providing relevant skills and associated, socio-economic trajectory changing opportunities for “two or more have-nots” in the world…. every year. I think the impact of such a movement would be astounding.
We are very blessed that some very prominent names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them.
Wow…this is a tough one. There are a tremendous amount of people in this world that I admire for several reasons and have been blessed to meet more than a few. That said, the folks at the top of my “would love to have a meaningful engagement with” have one thing in common…they view their life’s achievements not just as personal success, but as a platform to make a significantly positive impact on the lives of others, aiming to leave a lasting legacy of philanthropy and meaningful change before they leave this earth. With that in mind, my choice would be Melinda French Gates.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
I can be reached via LinkedIn is @BrianKReaves and on Instagram at @BrianKReaves.
Thank you for these fantastic insights. We greatly appreciate the time you spent on this.
About The Interviewer: Vanessa Ogle is a mom, entrepreneur, inventor, writer, and singer/songwriter. Vanessa’s talent in building world-class leadership teams focused on diversity, a culture of service, and innovation through inclusion allowed her to be one of the most acclaimed Latina CEO’s in the last 30 years. She collaborated with the world’s leading technology and content companies such as Netflix, Amazon, HBO, and Broadcom to bring innovative solutions to travelers and hotels around the world. Vanessa is the lead inventor on 120+ U.S. Patents. Accolades include: FAST 100, Entrepreneur 360 Best Companies, Inc. 500 and then another six times on the Inc. 5000. Vanessa was personally honored with Inc. 100 Female Founder’s Award, Ernst and Young’s Entrepreneur of the Year Award, and Enterprising Women of the Year among others. Vanessa now spends her time sharing stories to inspire and give hope through articles, speaking engagements and music. In her spare time she writes and plays music in the Amazon best selling new band HigherHill, teaches surfing clinics, trains dogs, and cheers on her children.
Please connect with Vanessa here on linkedin and subscribe to her newsletter Unplugged as well as follow her on Substack, Instagram, Facebook, and X and of course on her website VanessaOgle.
Navigating Workplace Toxicity: Brian Reaves Of UKG On Strategies for a Healthier Work Environment was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.