An Interview With Drew Gerber
Get outside help from a friend or professional if you are feeling stuck. It can be emotional work and you are not unusual if it is challenging.
We live in a time of great excess. We have access to fast fashion, fast food, and fast everything. But studies show that all of our “stuff” is not making us any happier. How can we simplify and focus on what’s important? How can we let go of all the clutter and excess and find true happiness? In this interview series, we are talking to coaches, mental health experts, and authors who share insights, stories, and personal anecdotes about “How Simplifying and Decluttering Your Life Can Make Us Happier.” As a part of this series, I had the distinct pleasure of interviewing Melissa Gugni.
Melissa Gugni is the principal and lead organizer of Melissa Gugni Organizing, based in San Francisco and Sonoma County. She is also co-owner of Union Larder, an award winning wine bar and Little Vine, a wine and cheese shop also in San Francisco. Originally from the Midwest, she has lived in the Bay Area for over 20 years. When she is not organizing, she is spending time with her family, cooking, volunteering, traveling and gardening.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dive in, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you share your “backstory” with us? What was it that led you to your eventual career choice?
Thank you! I’m so happy to be here. I am a serial entrepreneur. My first business, which I owned with my husband, was a cocktail catering company. That led to a gourmet food and wine shop, restaurants and a vacation rental. If there is one thing that I know I can do, it’s get a business off the ground. But through it all, my passion was for organizing. When I had an arduous task to do like taxes, my reward was that I got to clean out my closet. I fantasized about re-engineering friends’ kitchens when I was housesitting. My brain is kooky that way. My friend, who is a brilliant corporate coach, asked me what my fantasy job was, and I blurted out “professional organizer.” She said, “well why don’t you do it?” and hired me on the spot. More jobs came my way quickly and before I knew it I had a fully fledged business.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you started your career?
I was once brought in for a literal treasure hunt. I was hired on behalf of an 86 year old woman with dementia who had lived in her home for over 50 years. The family knew that there was a safe buried somewhere in the foundation of the garage, but no one knew where. The hoarding situation was pretty severe. There were stacks of boxes, appliances and all sorts of stuff piled up to the ceiling. After only three hours of carefully reorganizing things to get around, I found the safe (amazing since we thought it could potentially take all week). Apparently it was a treasure trove of jewelry, and I wish I could have been there when they actually opened it!
Are you working on any exciting new projects now? How do you think that will help people?
All of my projects excite me! Right now I am doing everything from helping an elderly couple organize their estate planning and financial paperwork, helping a family deal with the loss of dear relatives and what to do with their things and revamping a toy storage in time for the holidays, among other projects. I think what I do helps people in different ways, but overall, I consider myself a professional problem solver. Whether a person or family doesn’t have the time, the skills or the distance from the situation that is overwhelming them, I am honored to be allowed in and bring a detached, objective perspective and a plan of execution.
Can you share with our readers a bit about why you are an authority on the topic of “How Simplifying and Decluttering Your Life Can Make You Happier”?
I have worked with 100s of people, organizing their stuff, but also the stuff behind their stuff. When a person’s physical surroundings are overwhelming them, something needs to change. That is where I come in. I have walked many folks through the process of really looking at what and where the problem is in their surroundings. When you live in your space everyday, it is easy to become immune to what is going on. When I can point out that, for instance, not having a designated spot for incoming mail to go and be sorted, it can set off an “aha” moment about why there is unopened mail piled up everywhere.
Having more stuff coming in than a household can manage is a modern problem. There is no magic metric to determine the right amount, but when I can observe lots of unopened Amazon boxes, duplicate items everywhere because the original ones can’t be found and extremely frazzled homeowners, it is a good indication that things need to be simplified and decluttered.
Ok, thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the main focus of our interview. We live in a time of excess. We have access to so much. But studies show that all of our “stuff” is not making us any happier. Can you articulate for our readers a few reasons why all of our possessions are not giving us happiness?
Analysis paralysis is real and I believe that it is caused by having too many things, too many options and too many decisions to make everyday. Humans are not designed to have to deal with so many things all of the time, and studies have proven that overconsumption and excess can lead to anxiety and depression. It’s an interesting paradox. I know I have fallen for the guise of “treating myself” to a special purchase when I was feeling down. But as they say, “wherever you go, there you are” and not surprisingly, any jolt of happiness from the purchase was fleeting. I know during the Covid shut down, consumer online spending was up. Beyond buying practical things like toilet paper, I think many were seeking a dopamine hit during a very difficult time. But then what? Did that purchase lead to lasting happiness? It is a very hard thing to judge, since financial situations vary, but an overall theme to me is that happiness is an inside job.
On a broader societal level, how do you think this excessiveness may be harming our communities and society?
When things become more important than relationships or experiences. It is about knowing where the line is though, since it is different for everyone. I worked for a successful software engineer who was in need of help getting his apartment in order. He was frustrated that the amount of clutter was keeping him from having people over to his place. In his case, I’m not sure that was necessarily coming from a place of excessive buying, but the combination of working long hours, not having the time and not having the skills to organize his home. But this speaks to the deeper sense of lost connection. He didn’t want to socialize because of the shame he felt about his home. I helped him develop a system of where things would go so that was easy for him to follow and maintain. This was just a practical skill that he wanted to learn, and then he did, and that was that. There is no shame in needing to learn something new.
The irony of struggling with happiness in modern times is glaring. In many places in the world today, we have more than ever before in history. Yet despite this, so many people are unhappy. Why is simplifying a solution? How would simplifying help people to access happiness?
Simplifying can be a great solution, and seeing is believing. If someone is curious about giving it a try, but it feels too overwhelming to take on their whole home/life, I encourage taking baby steps. Start with a room that has fewer things with deep emotional value, for instance, a bathroom or the kitchen. Working with a professional organizer can be extremely helpful. As we simplify and downsize the room, I periodically check in with how they are feeling. I have seen lives and even bodies change through this process. It is as if I could see the weight lifted from their shoulders. Usually that feeling makes them ready to take on more. It’s hard to know the end result when starting out, but I have seen enormous changes happen, including more joy and happiness through decluttering.
Can you share some insights from your own experience? Where in your life have you transformed yourself from not having enough to finally experiencing enough? For example, many people feel they don’t have enough money. Yet, people define abundance differently, and often, those with the least money can feel the most abundant. Where in your health, wealth, or relationships have you transformed your life?
When I graduated from college, I packed a backpack and flew to New Zealand with no contacts and no plan. I thought I’d stay a few months and ended up living there, Australia and Hawaii for two years. I was always working low paying jobs, sleeping in hostels and eating ramen noodles, and I was happy. I never had more than seven shirts and four pairs of shorts. I had my health, a willingness to work, people to befriend everywhere I went (there were no smartphones to bury my face in then) and it was wonderful. I had so few choices to make and almost no responsibility. It planted the seeds of my minimalist leaning life. Before I left on that adventure, I leisure shopped just like most people in my community. After thriving with so little for those two years, I was suddenly uncomfortable being around too many things. I remember the night that I returned to the States and was lying in bed in the house that I grew up in, thinking, what is all of this stuff? I promptly got rid of 95% of it. Soon after I went to a popular store where you could buy one pair of sandals for $4 and two pairs for $5. I picked up one pair. The cashier couldn’t believe I wasn’t getting what was obviously the better deal. But one pair was enough!
People, places, and things shape our lives. For example, your friends generate conversations that influence you. Where you live impacts what you eat and how you spend your time. The “things” in your life, like phones, technology, or books impact your recreation. Can you tell us a little about how people, places, and things in your own life impact your experience of “experiencing enough?”
As a card carrying member of Generation X, I don’t think that I have been as shaped by many of the things that affect younger generations (namely technology), simply because I didn’t have the same kind of access to them growing up. I know that is a moving target though — I’m sure even gen z kids will eventually feel that way! I live in San Francisco, and I consider myself very lucky to have access to food, culture, tech and people that are very diverse. While it is a very expensive place to live, I personally find that there are many cheap and free pleasures, like taking walks in my beautiful neighborhood.
What advice would you give to younger people about “experiencing enough?”
I was recently contacted through a friend by a young woman who was on a backpacking adventure through Europe. It was very exciting since she wanted to know how I did it when I was in the South Pacific 20 + years ago (no one is too interested in my old stories anymore!) It was clear she was having the time of her life and had no interest in heading home anytime soon. And not surprisingly, she was feeling the tug of external pressures and hearing about her friend’s promotions and getting into grad programs. She worried that perhaps she was missing out and would be left behind. It was so relatable and reminded me of my own worries in my 20s. My advice was that comparison is the thief of joy. Social media is set up for us to compare ourselves to others, 24/7. It takes a certain amount of bravery to live on one’s own terms and decide when enough is enough.
This is the main question of our interview. Based on your experience and research, can you share your “five ways we can simplify and declutter our lives to make us happier?”
In the spirit of this topic, I’ll keep them simple!
1. Decide what is important. Your health? Happiness? Sanity? Connection with friends and family? Experiences and adventure? Keep those goals in mind as you work through the parts of your home that are causing overwhelm.
2. Keep the things that are in alignment with your goals.
3. Toss/donate/recycle what is getting in the way of these goals.
4. Get outside help from a friend or professional if you are feeling stuck. It can be emotional work and you are not unusual if it is challenging.
5. Remember: progress not perfection! Few of us can simplify and organize our homes into Instagram worthy places. And who cares? Perfection is really boring 🙂
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
If you are feeling overwhelmed, shameful, depressed, anxious or hopeless about your home, consider getting some help from a professional organizer. The pro organizing profession can sound like an extravagance, but it really can be a life/marriage/family saver. I’ve seen it in action time and time again. Your home is so important. It is a place of comfort, security and refuge. A place of joy, connection, peace and fun. I love the quote from Kahlil Gibran “Let your home be your mast and not your anchor.” When someone like me can come in, identify the problem and offer practical solutions, life can change. Sometimes that can be done in a matter of hours. It doesn’t have to have anything to do with matching glass canisters or making things rainbow coordinated.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
At my website mgorganizing.com or @melissa_gugni_organizing on IG.
Thank you so much for these insights. This was so inspiring, and so important!
About The Interviewer: For 30 years, Drew Gerber has been inspiring those who want to change the world. Drew is the CEO of Wasabi Publicity, Inc., a full-service PR agency lauded by PR Week and Good Morning America. Wasabi Publicity, Inc. is a global marketing company that supports industry leaders, change agents, unconventional thinkers, companies and organizations that strive to make a difference. Whether it’s branding, traditional PR or social media marketing, every campaign is instilled with passion, creativity and brilliance to powerfully tell their clients’ story and amplify their intentions in the world.
Melissa Gugni On How Simplifying & Decluttering Your Life Can Make You Happier was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.