Janet M. Stovall of Pragmatic Diversity: 5 Steps We Must Take to Truly Create an Inclusive, Representative and Equitable Society
Define equity clearly. Equal opportunity or equal outcomes? Reparations? System reform or dismantling? These aren’t philosophical — they’re practical. You can’t practice inclusion until you’re clear about what equity you’re achieving.
I had the pleasure of interviewing Janet M. Stovall, CDE, Pragmatic Diversity.
Janet M. Stovall, CDE is a global thought leader, speaker, and consultant on diversity, equity, and inclusion, and founder of Pragmatic Diversity. Her TED Talk on workplace diversity has been viewed over 2.5 million times. She is the author of “The Conscious Communicator” and the upcoming book “Belonging is Bullsh*t.”
Thank you so much for joining us! Before we begin, can you tell us a bit about how you grew up?
I grew up in a small, segregated town in North Carolina — though I didn’t realize it at the time. My school was integrated 50/50, but we lived in separate neighborhoods at home. The economic disparity, the essential segregation, didn’t hit me until college.
At a predominantly white institution with no going home, I suddenly understood exclusion. I understood what it meant to be in a place that wasn’t built for me and wasn’t trying to change.
But I come from five generations of college-educated Black women and men. Education mattered. So I stayed. But I didn’t stay quiet. College taught me that objectivity can dismantle subjectivity in systems. It remains my core belief.
Is there a particular book that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?
Mama Day by Gloria Naylor. I read it at least five times because every time something happened in my life, I found a parallel I hadn’t seen before.
As a young English major from a small town, I found myself at Morgan Stanley working with supercomputers — having never touched a computer before. Mama Day gave me words for the feelings of my work, relationships, and history. It taught me that stories — even fictional ones — can be roadmaps for reality.
The lesson that still rings true: Never forget who you are, whose you are, and where you came from.
Do you have a favorite “life lesson quote”? Do you have a story about how that was relevant in your life or your work?
In college, I was driving Dr. Charles King — a civil rights leader and social activist — to the airport, being vocal about everything wrong with my school and the world. When I paused for breath, he said, “You are the angriest little Black woman I have ever met.” Fair. Then: “Why don’t you stop getting mad and start getting meaningful?”
I’ve done exactly 50% of what he said ever since. I never stopped getting mad, but I got meaningful. Today, I’m objectively pragmatic, not subjectively passionate. The anger is fuel — but I channel it into strategic action that creates measurable change.
How do you define “Leadership”? Can you explain what you mean or give an example?
Leadership is the ability to affect: people you guide, brands you represent, impact you create. Shape the vision, communicate it, execute it — through others.
Tim Ryan at PwC exemplifies this. In 2020, he didn’t just issue statements; he created CEO Action for Diversity & Inclusion, mobilizing hundreds of business leaders. He shared his own bias journey vulnerably, shaped a vision of corporate accountability, and executed systemic change. That’s leadership — using influence for transformation, not just advancement.
Can you articulate to our readers a few reasons why it is so important for a business or organization to have a diverse executive team?
Think biodiversity. Variety ensures stability, resilience, adaptation. Organizations need the same diversity at the top.
Diverse executive teams make better decisions — they process information more carefully and avoid groupthink. They understand diverse markets from lived experience, not guesswork. They attract and retain diverse talent by showing advancement is possible for everyone. They drive innovation because innovation happens where different ideas intersect.
The most innovative companies aren’t just diverse at entry level — they’re diverse where big decisions get made.
Can you please share your “5 Steps We Must Take To Truly Create An Inclusive, Representative, and Equitable Society”? Kindly share a story or example for each.
Society? That’s harder than workplace inclusion. But here goes:
1. Acknowledge history — don’t suppress it. We’re actively suppressing history now. When we don’t learn from it, we repeat it. In workplaces, this shows up when companies celebrate diversity milestones without acknowledging the exclusionary practices that made those milestones necessary. If we don’t name how hiring practices, promotion criteria, and networking systems historically excluded certain groups, we can’t understand why representation gaps persist.
2. Accept that in an inequitable world, equity itself is disruption. Inclusion isn’t natural — we gravitate toward people like us. Real change disrupts the status quo. That’s not a bug, it’s a feature.
3. Everyone is diverse. Diversity isn’t “those people over there.” Everyone has race, gender, orientation, abilities, background. When we start there, inclusion becomes about creating systems that work for all diverse people — including ourselves.
4. Focus on shared interests. Economic security, safe communities, quality education, healthcare — these unite people across differences if we frame them right.
5. Define equity clearly. Equal opportunity or equal outcomes? Reparations? System reform or dismantling? These aren’t philosophical — they’re practical. You can’t practice inclusion until you’re clear about what equity you’re achieving.
We are going through a rough period now. What makes you optimistic about the future of the US? Can you please explain?
Regression to the mean. The mean is always inequity.
Progress isn’t linear. Advances, backlash, different advances. Civil rights, then Southern Strategy. Obama, then Tea Party and Trump. Every step forward generates reaction.
But each cycle, the baseline rises. The “normal” we return to is more equitable than before. Women couldn’t vote, then they could. Black people were enslaved, then weren’t. LGBTQ+ people couldn’t marry, then they could. Each regression doesn’t go all the way back.
Demographics are destiny. The US is becoming more diverse. Young people are more inclusive. The economic case for diversity becomes stronger as markets become increasingly globalized.
This rough period? It’s a reaction to progress, not the absence of it. Reactions are temporary.
Is there a person in the world, or in the US, with whom you would like to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we tag them.
I cannot give you just one. I have to give you three:
Michelle Obama. She understands business and political realities. She could help me get real about what’s possible versus ideal. Plus, her thoughts on being “the only one” in power rooms.
Oprah Winfrey. When she talks, millions listen. I want to know what she really thinks about this mess, then strategize how we tell equity stories that move people, not just inform them.
Honorée Fanonne Jeffers. She wrote Misbehaving at the Crossroads, which speaks to who I’ve become, like Mama Day spoke to who I was becoming. Shared geography, shared views, shared Brunswick stew. The best conversations happen with people who’ve walked your path.
How can our readers follow you online?
Website: pragmaticdiversity.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/janetmariestovall/
Instagram: @diversitypragmatist
Podcast: https://inthismoment.network/
Find my TED Talk “How to get serious about diversity and inclusion in the workplace” on YouTube — 2.5 million views and counting. Watch for my upcoming book, Belonging is Bullsh*T: How equity perspective shapes inclusion practice (2026).
Thank you for sharing all of these great insights!
Janet M. Stovall of Pragmatic Diversity: 5 Steps We Must Take to Truly Create an Inclusive… was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.