An Interview With Martita Mestey
Doing and saying the right thing, for the right reasons, in the right way can marginalize you.
In many parts of the United States, there is a crisis of people having limited reliable access to a sufficient quantity of affordable, nutritious food. As prices rise, this problem will likely become more acute. How can this problem be solved? Who are the leaders helping to address this crisis?
In this interview series, we are talking to leaders who are helping to address the increasing problem of food insecurity who can share the initiatives they are leading to address and solve this problem.
As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Natalie J. McKinney.
Natalie J. McKinney is co-founder and executive director of Whole Child Strategies, Inc, a place-based Community-Led Efforts Intermediary. Previously, she served as the Director of Policy for both Shelby County Schools and legacy Memphis City Schools, which included policy development and legislative planning and leading the effort to revise and develop the school district policy for the largest school district merger (an amalgamation of rural, suburban and urban schools) in American public education history. She has a Bachelor of Arts in Political Science from Spelman College, a Juris Doctor from the University of California, Berkeley, School of Law, and a Master of Public Affairs from the School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
I believe the best way to start is sort of in the middle. After graduating from high school in Oakland, California, I attended and received a Bachelor of Arts in Political Science from Spelman College. After graduating, I earned a Juris Doctor from the University of California, Berkeley, School of Law and a Master of Public Affairs from the School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University. Prior to my arrival to Memphis in 2005, I founded and served as the inaugural director of the Juvenile Law Clinic at North Carolina Central University School of Law, providing a holistic approach to representing youth accused of delinquent behavior and expelled from school. This work was recognized by the American Bar Association Juvenile Justice Section as a “best practice” in North Carolina. During my tenure at NCCU School of Law, I helped start the Street Law class, served as an adjunct professor and coordinator of the pro bono program. My time in North Carolina also included serving as a juvenile law research associate at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill’s Institute of Government. At the beginning of my career, I served as an associate attorney at Moore & Van Allen, PLLC, in Durham, North Carolina and Alston & Bird in Atlanta, Georgia.
I’m currently the co-founder and executive director of Whole Child Strategies. Immediately prior to WCS, I served as the Director of Policy for both Shelby County Schools and legacy Memphis City Schools, which included policy development and legislative planning. A job I didn’t know existed, and yet seemed to be made just for me! Marrying my legal and policy background in a match made in heaven. Never did I imagine this would put me in the middle of the largest school district merger in the history of public education in America, where I led the effort to revise and develop a school district policy manual to accommodate the resulting amalgamation of rural, suburban, and urban schools. While working for the school district, I realized the best way to impact a student is to improve their environment outside the classroom. Any experienced teacher will attest that what happens outside of the classroom has a direct impact on what happens inside the classroom, especially when that classroom is located in a community disproportionately affected by poverty. Once I realized this, I knew I had to do this work, in this way.
Fortunately, in the midst of all this, I got married, raised two incredible young men, Ayodele (recent magna cum laude graduate of Xavier University) and Chioke (honors sophomore at Howard University), with my best friend and life partner, Dr. Charles W. McKinney, Jr.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
Finding the job (or it finding me!) at legacy Memphis City Schools as the Director of Policy and Legislative Planning. Essentially, this position combined both of my degrees, and passions, into one meaningful job. At that time, no other position like mine existed as an independent department/division in a school district!
Are you able to identify a “tipping point” in your career when you started to see success? Did you start doing anything different? Are there takeaways or lessons that others can learn from that?
“Success” is an extremely relative term. A phenomenon I learned along the way. Most define it as an external event. Traditionally, you are “successful” when your actions, work, and feats are recognized, applauded and appreciated by others. This, however, is personally debilitating.
My tipping point came when I recognized the relativity of the meaning of “success”. I’d say that was when I developed and founded the NCCU School of Law Juvenile Law Clinic. The genesis of this work began after covering a juvenile delinquency case for an attorney I was working with in Durham. I noted the prevalence of only Black youth defendants, the presence of a prominent predominantly white law school clinic defending them, and the glaring absence of the only HBCU law school in town known for its law clinics.
Given my relationship with NCCU School of Law, I pitched the idea to the dean. She supported it, however, I had to raise the funds. My first attempt at obtaining a grant, failed. It was my second attempt that sealed the deal. Allowing me to establish the first Juvenile Law Clinic at NCCU School of Law, representing Black youth disproportionately impacted by juvenile complaints, often accompanied with expulsions and minimal support where needed. The clinic provided a holistic approach to defending Black youth; representing them in the courtroom and at the school district, and providing targeted services not only to youth, but also to their parents/guardians to identify and address root causes to their behavior.
The “success” I recognized was in the perseverance I maintained even after a solid “no”; the audacity and courage to think and do differently without a roadmap, explicit directions or external approval; and the satisfaction all stakeholders, youth clients, parents/guardians, judges, juvenile case managers, etc. received.
Prior to this, I was chained to the notion that “success” is an external measure or validation. It may be for some. However, I found my passion which directed and drove my work. Until then, I was just a practicing lawyer, at large law firms, from a top 5 law school…practicing. Externally, to many, that was “success”. Internally, it gave me no joy.
Key takeaways –
- Determine what drives your meaning of “success”. Is it external validation or internal joy, or some combination of both?
- Then, identify your passion. Think about what you love and how you can make that a part of your life. It may not be just one thing or in one forum. And that’s ok.
- Have the audacity and courage to think and act “out-the-box”.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person to whom you are grateful who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
There is no one particular person. I think I attribute my success to the “village”. All throughout my life, at different points and places, I’ve had someone or several people contribute to my growth and development. Each encounter and experience building upon the last. Of course my parents and grandparents, instilling a sense of integrity, humility and strength; our neighbors who really were the village, praising me and holding me accountable; classmates from college and graduate school who challenged me, while supporting me; my professional relationships developed at my first job, all the way to now, showing me, sometimes through adversity, what I am capable of.
Given this, there is no one particular story. What I have are experiences that contributed to who I am and how I show up. With that said, one of my early experiences contributing to my growth and development to be successful was watching my mother and father navigate the interview process for enrollment in a prestigious, predominantly white parochial high school in our city. I remember not really being interested in continuing to attend parochial schools after eighth grade. However, my parents insisted I apply, which meant submitting to the entrance exam. Well, I scored in the 98th percentile. That, however, was not enough. We had to submit to an interview. What I will never forget is how my mother and father stood up for what they believed I needed as a teenage Black female. Questions about Black staff, Black counselors, etc. were immediately put on the table. My parents explained that their daughter needed someone she could relate to should I have issues outside of academics, prevalent among teenagers. Noting that if I were to have any challenges while attending their school, academics would not be my problem. Instead, they were peppered with questions about who on their staff could relate to me and my perspective as a smart, Black teenage girl. The interview quickly became more about what they could offer me versus what I could offer them. Needless to say I did not get accepted. Not a disappointment to me at all considering I had absolutely no desire to attend the school. What that experience did provide was a clear example of how I should stand up for myself, stand up for what I believe in, and have the courage to understand it may not turn out the way intended. However, that is not the end. There is more than one way to skin a cat!!
You are a successful leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?
Confidence — I am intelligent, driven and sure of what I do know. I’m unafraid and undaunted by what I don’t, always willing to ask questions to learn. Validation is unnecessary when you move in this world doing the right thing, for the right reason, in the right way.
Integrity — I do what I say, and say what I’ll do. If I can’t, then I’m honest and unafraid to let you know and adjust.
Persistence — Believing in what you do is paramount to getting it done and done well.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“Do the right thing, for the right reasons, in the right way.” I live by this in both my personal and professional life. I believe it is an extension of the bible verse “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” which applies irrespective of what you believe in or not.
Ok super. Let’s now shift to the main part of our discussion. Can you describe to our readers how your work is helping to address the challenge of food insecurity?
WCS takes a unique approach to ensuring Black residents in Memphis are socially and economically mobile. We understand that access to a quality education is an important factor in gaining and sustaining social and economic mobility. However, if a youth’s family and neighborhood environment is unsafe, void of access to basic needs, and/or unstable, getting to and staying in school becomes a struggle. Working “backwards”, WCS is arguably the only nonprofit in Memphis that focuses deeply on out-of-school barriers to educational attainment by partnering with community stakeholders to identify and directly address the root causes of these barriers in the streets, neighborhoods, families and networks where they arise.
As a Community-Led Efforts Intermediary, we have invested in conditions and tools that allow the neighborhood to tackle these root causes — specifically, by supporting community cohesion and coordination of efforts through resident-led organizing, outreach and solutions. Specifically, we partner with local resident-champions, neighborhood schools, and respected neighborhood and local organizations to build capacity and relationships and invest directly into the community. By focusing on supporting the development of whole communities and the sustainability of whole families, communities can provide a positive, safe and consistent environment for producing a whole child, leading to generational thriving versus generational poverty.
This vision and mission is distinctive in that we do not impose a set of outcomes on the neighborhoods in and with which we work beyond the identification of the predispositions toward social, economic, and political systems necessary to be successful. Because we are serious about our commitment to community leadership, we have worked and will continue to work with community stakeholders to identify the critical areas of need and the work to be done.
Our work starts with creating the conditions for collaboration by building trust with and amongst community stakeholders through boots on the ground organizing and convening neighborhood council meetings. These meetings engage community stakeholders in identifying neighborhood assets, needs, and gaps; inviting them to prioritize the root causes for the gaps and provide solutions. Klondike and Smokey City identified seven root causes hindering their youth from getting to school, every day, engaged and ready to learn — Community Engagement, Community Maintenance, Crime and Safety, Transportation, Health and Well-being, Youth Engagement, and Pathways to Employment.
One of the root causes identified, Health and Well-being, and therefore access to fresh food, became acute during the pandemic. Acute because access to fresh food was not merely limited to the type of food, but also the ability to afford the food (no or limited money) and obtain it (no access to transportation, internet, etc.). Through the use of surveys and community resident champions interaction with their neighbors, the Klondike and Smokey City residents informed us that they wanted access to “fresh food”. At that time, the only grocery store was limited, and frankly, did not always have “fresh” food. Additionally, the ability to afford and get the food was severely limited given the lockdown situation. In an effort to address the actual need and request, we asked for clarity. What our surveys and more importantly, community resident champions (Neighborhood Champions) conveyed, is that they wanted to have and make choices about what they ate. The same choices I had, as a middle class resident, by ordering food on-line, and choosing the type, brand, and quantity sufficient for my family’s dietary and consumption needs. So we responded by working with our Neighborhood Champions to gather grocery lists. Funds received from philanthropy allowed us to provide realistic budgets according to the number of people in the family, and not just one amount fits all. WCS organizers made the purchases via instacart, and had them safely delivered to the residents’ doorsteps. Access we should all have, and yet don’t, because of lack of resources, e.g. local affordable grocery store, money, internet, computer, fully operable cell phone, etc.
After the city opened, the food insecurity issue remained acute. Thus, was born the “KSC Residents on the Move” — a partnership conceived with MATA in response to the expressed need for continuous and sustained access to affordable, fresh food and general household goods. It is a transportation service provided for our two Black communities to transport them to the Downtown Farmers Market, Walmart (their request), a grocery store and local food bank. MATA is now considering how to institutionalize this kind of effort in other food insecure neighborhoods.
Can you share something about your work that makes you most proud? Is there a particular story or incident that you found most uplifting?
When I hear the community stakeholders we work with telling each other about the need to address what’s really going on, e.g. the root causes. When I hear our Neighborhood Champions say they now have “hope” since WCS has been working with them and their communities. When I see how the community actually uses a solution they created, eg. KSC Residents of the Move, to the point that it is recognized as the most ridden route in our city. When I see the beginnings of social cohesion taking root after so many years (decades) it’s been missing. While I recognize there is much work yet to be done, it’s taking root!
In your opinion, what should other business and civic leaders do to further address these problems? Can you please share a few things that can be done to further address the problem of food insecurity?
Let’s not confuse food insecurity (lack of the ability to afford and access food) with a food desert (lack of a food source in my community). Addressing food insecurity is not a linear process. It requires that many systems and processes adjust and align. One very easy way to determine what the problem is to accessing fresh food is to simply ask the community. They know what issues hinder their access to fresh food. They have solutions customized to their specific neighborhood(s). Far too often, civic leaders and well-intentioned business leaders, non-profits, researchers, etc. think surveying and focus “grouping” people, then taking that information to city hall, the boardroom, conference room or academic tower, and developing the solution for, not with, those impacted will solve the problem. Not. This is a generational issue perpetuated by systemic racist institutions and structures, from redlining to underfunding public education to disinvesting in infrastructure in predominantly Black communities, and all that comes between. The Krogers of the world don’t open grocery stores in communities that don’t meet a certain median income level. Well, if I don’t have a job making a local living wage, then I won’t meet that income level. If I can’t get that job making a local living wage because I don’t have the skill set and/or transportation to get to it, then I won’t meet that income level. Thus, there is a need to look at systems (pathways to employment, local living wages provided by businesses and government agencies, transportation, etc.) from a horizontal perspective versus vertical.
I implore folks to stop saying “we need to bring the community to the table.” Why? Because most of the time the table is set. The community is limited to what has been provided. Instead, think about engaging and including community in building the menu for neighborhood transformation, almost always inclusive of addressing food insecurity. That will dictate what is brought to the table and who needs to be there.
If you had the power to influence legislation, are there laws that you would like to see introduced that might help you in your work?
Yes. Revise how our state (TN) defines the uses of TANF (Temporary Aid for Needy Families) dollars. Think “out-the-box” if we truly want the dollars to be “temporary”. Think about using the dollars for a guaranteed income program, supporting families in upskilling, budgeting, addressing barriers to upskilling (e.g. childcare, housing, transportation, income while upskilling, eliminating the “cliff” barrier, etc.).
What are your “5 things I wish someone told me when I first started” and why?
- Being an intelligent Black woman, willing to speak up is hard.
- Doing and saying the right thing, for the right reasons, in the right way can marginalize you.
#1 and #2 go together. I recall one of my prior supervisors remarking that “you don’t think you’re ever wrong.” My response was, of course I can and have been wrong, just not when I’m talking about the work I do. And given my penchant for “clapback”, I proceeded to ask when I had been wrong. To this day, I’ve never received that answer.
However, I was marginalized in my role from certain meetings, etc. It did not interfere with my ability to do my work, and yet it was mentally exhausting. I survived and left that position when I decided.
3. Expecting people to see the full picture and understand the goal, at the same point in time, hardly ever really happens.
One of my mentors pulled me aside letting me know that some leaders of other departments felt I was attempting to tell them how to do their work. I was taken a little off guard. However, my mentor, a Black woman, explained that I had a talent for quickly seeing the larger and longer picture most do not. The adjustment challenge for me was to be patient and bring them along. Sure it will take longer, however, they will feel they did it not because I said so, but because they recognize the need to move in that direction.
You are a person of enormous influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
Black Neighborhood Transformation — Using Community-Led Efforts Intermediaries to engage, organize, mobilize, support and equip community-led/driven solutions to sustainable Black communities
Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we tag them. 🙂
Mackenzie Scott
How can our readers further follow your work online?
This was very meaningful, thank you so much, and we wish you only continued success.
How Natalie McKinney Is Helping To Address The Growing Challenge Of Food Insecurity was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.