An Interview With Vanessa Ogle
Mentoring. Women who have already made it need to reach back and help those who are coming up behind them. Regardless of their role in the agency, women in leadership positions need to get involved in the hiring and retention process. Some agencies have gone so far as to assign mentors to all new hires.
Despite strides towards equality, women remain underrepresented in leadership and management roles across various sectors. In this series, we would like to discuss the barriers to female advancement in these areas and explore actionable strategies for change. We are talking with accomplished women leaders, executives, and pioneers who have navigated these challenges successfully, to hear their experiences, tactics, and advice to inspire and guide the next generation of women toward achieving their full potential in leadership and management roles. As part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Ganesha Martin.
A highly sought after expert on police and community safety, Ganesha Martin’s unique perspective stems from her experience working in local government in the mayor’s office and police department in Baltimore City, and now working with departments and communities around the country. She regularly speaks and trains on DOJ consent decrees, police transformation and accountability, and public safety. She’s a member of the Council on Criminal Justice, an invite-only, nonpartisan organization and think tank for leaders in the criminal justice field.
In 2019 she was one of 40 community policing experts invited to Nairobi, Kenya to share community policing strategies during the Convening on Civilian Police Reform by the Open Society Foundations. She was also selected as a Top 40 under 40 by the International Chiefs of Police and the Baltimore Community Mediation Center’s advocate of the year. Martin’s expert commentary has been featured in The New York Times, The Baltimore Sun, CNN and the Washington Post among others.
Never one to be intimidated by what others see as impossible, Martin is using her talent to move the needle on some of society’s most challenging social problems. Her ability to translate both sides of an issue, quickly overcome distrust and move things forward helps her get things done. Her commitment to use communication as a bridge to unite opposing groups, diffuse conflict and foster real human connection makes her an invaluable asset to anyone seeking to bridge an insurmountable divide. But her fundamental belief in the universal human potential for rehabilitation and understanding pushes her towards her biggest goal to create practical pathways to progress.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
I started as a lawyer. I never wanted to be in policing but ended up there because I wanted to work on building bridges between people. Like many in our marginalized communities, I initially came to policing with a mistrust of police. I saw firsthand what can happen when law enforcement demonstrates a lack of compassion for communities of color. But I still went into policing because I knew that I could use my experiences as a way to bridge the gap between the police and the community. When I went to work at the Baltimore Police Department as the chief of staff to the commissioner, my opinion of the police began to change as soon as I got to see the job. I went to police funerals. I went to scenes. I saw the lack of equipment. And I saw the lack of care for police in general. They show up every day and put their lives on the line, and too often it feels like nobody cares.
I also saw how our actions impacted the community. I saw how those actions in turn shaped the community’s view of the police.
No matter where I’ve worked, I’ve been a collaborative leader, negotiator, and consensus builder among diverse stakeholders. I am passionate about building and cultivating safe spaces for suppressed voices and uniting communities of color and public safety.
I find if you bring people together — get them out on that bridge, get them to meet in what I call “the messy middle” — then both sides can come to some understanding. You may not solve all of the problems, but both sides can at least see each other as people. I believe that the police can be catalysts for racial equality, primarily by leading these tough conversations with the community.
Today I do that work at Mark43 where I lead the advisory services team. We provide evidence-based and data-informed support to jurisdictions, public safety agencies and communities. We work closely with agencies to identify their challenges and goals and design solutions that are specifically tailored to address their needs. We are committed to helping law enforcement agencies continuously improve themselves. We help our customers design initiatives and programs that support engagement between police organizations, the communities they serve, academic partners and other corporate entities.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
My most compelling experience occurred in 2015, on my first day as chief of staff to the Baltimore police commissioner. As I dashed from meeting to meeting, my day was interrupted by a call from a friend who had just been released from a detention center and had been traumatized when officers assaulted him.
Hours later, I received a second call. An officer on the line told me my friend was in another jurisdiction and had been arrested while experiencing a mental-health crisis. A hospital had refused to admit him, and the officer said he feared for the worst and asked if he could take my friend to another hospital.
I agreed, and then I waited, and worried, until the officer called back at 3 a.m. My friend was safe. After thanking the officer profusely, I sat on the floor and cried. My friend had been one of the lucky ones.
For far too many people, these episodes do not turn out this way. Why? We depend too heavily on police for too much, and we expect officers who get little more than an introduction to the complexities of mental health disorders to know how to manage a complex situation with standard-issue tools — a badge and a gun.
My friend was lucky because the officer who resolved his case was in a well-funded suburban police department, had special training and knew what to do. All communities deserve well-trained officers who show up prepared to help, not to harm. In my job for the Baltimore police commissioner, I resolved to make this the norm in our city, and in my naïveté, I thought everyone would jump on board.
Can you share a pivotal moment in your career that significantly influenced your path to leadership?
My most significant accomplishment thus far is the decision to stay the course and remain committed to police reform and community advocacy after the murder of George Floyd and the killing of Tyre Nichols. On both occasions, I really questioned if I was doing enough and if I should give up. After much prayer and thought, I decided to stick with police reform. I think it will be one of the most consequential decisions in my life.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
My fifth grade teacher Ms. City pushed me. She entered me in the spelling bee, oratory contest, and encouraged me to run for class president (which I won). She saw in me what I did not see in myself. She helped instill confidence and perseverance in the face of all challenges.
Is there a particular book that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?
The Alchemist. It reminds us that the treasure we need to change the world lies within us.
Do you have a favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Do you have a story about how that was relevant in your life or your work?
“If not me, who? If not now, when?”
How have you used your success to make the world a better place?
For me, that world is a better place when police and the community work together, trusting in each other, to ensure safe communities. I would say I’ve used my experience more than my success to achieve that. Now, I work directly with police departments to develop new strategies for improved policy, training and public safety with a focus on including rank and file and community voices. I design ways to proactively work with community members, hear their needs and improve the police/community dynamic before tragedy strikes. I’m proud, in my role as an executive at a leading public safety technology company, to work directly with police leaders in many jurisdictions across the U.S. on how they can leverage data and modern technology to better serve their communities in a more impactful and effective way.
Ok, thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the primary focus of our interview. According to this report, only about 31.7% of top executive positions across industries are held by women. This reflects great historical progress, but it also shows that more work still has to be done to empower women. In your opinion and experience what is currently holding back women from leadership and management?
The first obstacle we need to overcome is recruitment. We cannot elevate more women into leadership positions until we have more women in the ranks from which to draw. The representation of women in policing has been stuck at 12% or less for years. We need to continue our investment in movements like the 30 X 30 Initiative, which seeks to increase the representation of women in police recruit classes to 30% by 2030. This is a critical part of the effort to help pave the way for more diverse and representative leadership.
Another key obstacle is culture. For too long, everything about policing has been oriented toward the ideal of a male officer, and this discourages women from continuing on in their career. This can include everything from on-call requirements for so-called “elite” units, which disproportionately impact female officers and detectives who traditionally have served as primary caregivers for their children or aging parents, to parental leave policies, or even to something as overlooked as the cut of the uniforms. Agency leadership needs to set a tone of inclusion by taking a hard look at policies that may limit the desire of female officers to stay and advance their careers. We often talk about fair and equitable policies as if women are the only beneficiaries. When we take into consideration and care for the whole person as an employee, the entire organization benefits.
Mark43, where I work now, has consistently been a strong supporter of the types of conversation such as the one we are having today. This sends a message to the agencies that we support, and we continue to serve as a thought partner whenever we can.
This might be intuitive to you but I think it will be helpful to spell this out. Can you share a few reasons why more women should become leaders and managers?
The data unequivocally supports the positive impact of women in law enforcement. Female officers exhibit lower rates of excessive force, receive fewer complaints and lawsuits, are perceived as more compassionate by communities, exercise restraint in discretionary arrests and yield better outcomes for crime victims, particularly in cases of sexual assault.
Increasing the recruitment of women into law enforcement not only strengthens the profession of public safety but also enhances the fabric of our communities. By elevating more women into leadership roles, we can strengthen de-escalation techniques and problem-solving strategies throughout the entire public safety organization. This, in turn, fosters an environment where more women are encouraged to join and advance their careers in law enforcement.
Can you please share “5 Things We Need To Increase Women’s Engagement in Leadership and Management?”
1. Actively recruit more women into the ranks at public safety agencies. The next generation of leaders are right now in an academy classroom, and we need to boost the number of women into those classrooms if we want to see an increase in female supervisors, commanders and, yes, chiefs over the next 25 years.
2. Increased visibility. A colleague at the LAPD, Depuy Chief Ruby Flores says, “You can’t be what you can’t see.” To see a woman in uniform can have a powerful effect on a young woman who may not have otherwise considered a career in policing. Likewise, for female officers just starting out, seeing a female supervisor or commander can have an equally powerful effect on their decision to stay or go. Women in leadership need to find ways to get into the field and into the community, where they can be seen and where they can inspire the younger generations.
3. Mentoring. Women who have already made it need to reach back and help those who are coming up behind them. Regardless of their role in the agency, women in leadership positions need to get involved in the hiring and retention process. Some agencies have gone so far as to assign mentors to all new hires.
4. Improve the culture. Department leadership needs to look at the policies in place and see if they are at all exclusionary or discouraging for women who are looking to advance their careers. The Metropolitan Nashville Police Department put into place specific policies to ease the return of officers from maternity leave.
5. Listen to the women who are doing the work. Over the past few years, we have worked with Maureen McGough and Chief Ivonne Roman at the 30×30 Initiative to facilitate and co-host a series of listening sessions across the U.S. At these sessions, we heard from women serving their communities. These sessions were specifically designed to capture actionable insights to help attract more women to law enforcement careers and support their professional development. They generated actionable ideas and have proven to be a powerful tool in the critical work of finding solutions to recruit and retain women in law enforcement. They are a great example of what we should be doing more as a profession: listening.
In your opinion, what systemic changes are needed to facilitate more equitable access for women to leadership roles?
- Empowering women in law enforcement isn’t just about breaking barriers; it’s about reshaping the very fabric of justice.
- Getting more women into law enforcement is a crucial step forward, but it’s only the beginning.
- We must ensure that they not only enter but also stay, supported by a culture that intentionally nurtures their leadership path.
- It’s about more than just representation; it’s about fundamentally shifting the dynamics of power and influence within our agencies.
What strategies have you found most effective in mentoring and supporting other women to pursue leadership positions?
I recently finished a listening tour across the country with 30×30. In Waco, Texas where they have their first female police chief, her staff shared with me that for the first time ever the most popular costume among their girls was a police officer. In another jurisdiction, they had just promoted their first female lieutenant, who told us she only tried out for the promotion because for the first time they had a female chief and she saw herself in her. What we have seen constantly is that if you see yourself in someone else, then you believe you can do it!
How would you advise a woman leader about how to navigate the challenges of being a woman in a leadership role within a male-dominated industry?
First of all, try to be as authentic to yourself as possible. Always listen, even to your critics. I have created some of the most successful programs based on listening to my haters. Play chess not checkers: Be very strategic in when you lead from the front or from the back and whom you send on your behalf to get things done. You do not have to always fight the battle; there are many ways to win the war.
How do you balance the demand for authoritative leadership with the stereotypical expectations of female behavior in professional settings?
It is hard. You always second guess yourself. Was I too strong or was I too weak? Then you get to the point that you are twisting yourself in knots trying to conform to everyone else’s standards. We have to realize WE made it this far based on who we are, and we have to stand on that. We deserve to be here. We are smart. We are hardworking. We are strategic. We get things done. No one handed us these opportunities on a silver platter. We can do it! Lastly, do not stay somewhere you have to prove your value. Go somewhere you are appreciated. There are fair people who will recognize your value and pay you accordingly.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good for the greatest number of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger.
It is funny you ask that. I am participating in a program called the Decade Game that calls you to plan your most epic life over the next 10 years. It encourages me to write a stand; my working stand is “I stand for a world where CARING for the WELFARE of all reigns supreme in all aspects of our lives.”
Destination: Beacon of Conscious Caring Liberating Humans to experience the truest form of freedom and joy while on the earth.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
https://www.ganeshamartin.com/
Thank you for these fantastic insights. We greatly appreciate the time you spent on this.
About The Interviewer: Vanessa Ogle is a mom, entrepreneur, inventor, writer, and singer/songwriter. Vanessa’s talent in building world-class leadership teams focused on diversity, a culture of service, and innovation through inclusion allowed her to be one of the most acclaimed Latina CEO’s in the last 30 years. She collaborated with the world’s leading technology and content companies such as Netflix, Amazon, HBO, and Broadcom to bring innovative solutions to travelers and hotels around the world. Vanessa is the lead inventor on 120+ U.S. Patents. Accolades include: FAST 100, Entrepreneur 360 Best Companies, Inc. 500 and then another six times on the Inc. 5000. Vanessa was personally honored with Inc. 100 Female Founder’s Award, Ernst and Young’s Entrepreneur of the Year Award, and Enterprising Women of the Year among others. Vanessa now spends her time sharing stories to inspire and give hope through articles, speaking engagements and music. In her spare time she writes and plays music in the Amazon best selling new band HigherHill, teaches surfing clinics, trains dogs, and cheers on her children.
Please connect with Vanessa here on linkedin and subscribe to her newsletter Unplugged as well as follow her on Substack, Instagram, Facebook, and X and of course on her website VanessaOgle.
Ganesha Martin Of Mark43 On How We Can Increase Women’s Engagement in Leadership and Management was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.