An interview with Eden Gold
Change is hard. We need to acknowledge that. We need to admit that while we see gaps, we tend to want to do what we have always done. Doing new things, trying new innovations presents risks. They may not work. They may be difficult to replicate and scale. They may be challenging. But, failure to innovate is a greater risk in my view; if we stagnate, we fail to recognize our changing world and we will continue to lose students who do not see themselves fitting within the educational structure we have created. For change to work, it needs to occur at the micro, meso and macro levels. And we need the will to change. We also need collaboration and communication if change is to be facilitated.
The landscape of education is undergoing a profound transformation, propelled by technological advancements, pedagogical innovations, and a deepened understanding of learning diversities. Traditional classrooms are evolving, and new modes of teaching and learning are emerging to better prepare students for the complexities of the modern world. This series will take a look at the groundbreaking work being done across the globe to redefine education. As a part of this interview series, we had the pleasure to interview Karen Gross.
Karen Gross is an educator, author and artist. She has held many roles across the preK — adult educational pipeline, including as a college president, senior policy advisor to the US Dept. of Education (Obama Administration), tenured professor, visiting professor, guest speaker, artist-in-residence at Title I elementary school in VT. She has three books addressing trauma and its impact on student success: Breakaway Learners (2017), Trauma Doesn’t Stop at the School Door (2020) and Mending Education (2024), all published by Teachers College Press.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you share the “backstory” behind what brought you to this particular career path?
I wish I could say there was an intentionality to my career. But, that is not the case. I tell people, for example, that I never sought to be a college president; I never thought I would write more than a dozen children’s books; I never thought I would write a trilogy of adult books on the impact of trauma on learning. I never thought I would create and display visual art. I have had, by any measure, an episodic career, marked by this theme: finding ways to improve educational success for the students of today and tomorrow.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you started your career? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
Just one story? My stories fill my adult and children’s books. There are stories about successes and struggles; there are stories about people I have met who have mentored me and others whom I have mentored. Each story has a lesson.
Asking me to pick just one is a challenge but here goes: I recently went on a medical mission to the Dominican Republic, where I served as a translator and worked with over 300 children over a seven day period. I spoke Spanish well before I went (and grew up speaking French with my father) and my Spanish certainly improved in its fluency and ease of speaking while I was there.
During this experience, I saw abject poverty; I saw inadequate schools and totally absent healthcare on an ongoing basis. But, the people with whom I engaged (adults and children) were filled with life and joy and a willingness to learn and grow. They were not bitter or resentful; they were not complainers. This experience allowed me to see where joy can be found and the answer is everywhere and anywhere; it is not dependent on money or clean water or fabulous schools. It is found in the heart and the mind and the positive ways people navigate forward. We have lots to learn in the US about priorities, privilege, positivity and power.
The lesson: my complaining neighbor has no idea how good she has it. She and many others need to stop complaining and improve what can be improved and seek to find joy and peace, even the midst of disasters. We are healthier and happier if we can appreciate life, find happiness and play and laugh. That does not mean that everything is peachy keen; it means instead that we are motivated if possible by hope and positivity, not embracing negativity and meanness.
Can you briefly share with our readers why you are an authority in the education field?
While I don’t like the word “authority,” I have expertise at the theoretical, policy and lived experience levels. I have certainly read, studied and written about educational theory; I have participated in educational policy development and implementation; I have worked in schools across the pre-K — adult landscape as a teacher and as an administrator. I have worked in the US and abroad. I have published in several languages. I have visited disaster sites and witnessed and experienced that about which I write. And, I’ve been doing this work for more than 5 decades, which I suppose means I am older than dirt.
Can you identify some areas of the US education system that are going really great?
As detailed in my new co-authored book, the Pandemic was a challenge — a dramatic and deep challenge — for education at all levels. What is remarkable to me is that educators navigated forward, building the education plane while it was flying. These educators adapted and exercised creativity and enabled learning to continue — whether schools were shuttered or operating online or hybrid or within schools walls with social distancing and masks. By any measure, educators’ tenacity and capacity were remarkable.
Can you identify the key areas of the US education system that should be prioritized for improvement? Can you explain why those are so critical?
There are many and of course, what needs improvement depends on the age and stage of the students we are serving. What we want and need for preK differs from what we want and need within higher education. That said, here are some key items that need priority: (1) We need to respect educators. This is not as easy as it sounds. Educators often feel they are marginalized or not listened to as they speak and offer suggestions; (2) We need to recognize that content in learning is not King or Queen. Students of any age cannot learn if they are not socially and emotionally ready to learn. Even the best reading teacher is unable to teach a hungry first grader to read; even the best professor of literature cannot get a depressed college student to turn in papers and assignments timely. We need to pay attention to our students’ real needs and we need to meet them where they are at, not where we assume or desire them to be in this instant; (3) We need to offer quality education to ALL of our students. Sadly, the equity gap in education writ large is not shrinking. The Pandemic did not help. But, we also do not seem to have the will to improve education for all our students and build off their strengths as opposed to focusing on deficits.
Please tell us all about the innovative educational approaches that you are using. What is the specific problem that you aim to solve, and how have you addressed it?
As reflect in the new co-authored book that just released and as embedded in my earlier books, I believe we need to have trauma-responsive education and we need to have trauma responsive pedagogy. This is premised on the reality that many students have experienced trauma and we need to meet them where they are at. Moreover, if we employ these approaches, they benefit non-traumatized students too; a rising tide lifts all boats as the saying goes. Let me be clear here: using trauma responsiveness may be considered “innovative” and yes, we have new ways of ameliorating trauma. But, the truth is that we have needed this approach and it has been utilized in some schools for a decade, if not more.
I also think we learned innovative things that could improve education as a result of the Pandemic. For all the negatives of the Pandemic, there are lessons from online learning that can be transported back into brick and mortar schools IF (and that is a big if) we are willing and able to make change. Since generally speaking pre-Pandemic, change in education could be described as glacial, the Pandemic engendered change because there was a crisis and educators had no choice: they had to respond, including using new technologies. These new technologies enabled increased personalization and small group work, all benefits to education. And, we can use cell phones and ChatGPT to innovate, which is a vastly better approach than banning these advances.
In what ways do you think your approach might shape the future of education? What evidence supports this?
Much of my work has focused on trauma and its underlying science, which is tied to our brains and our bodies. My work is also grounded in practice — seeing, listening to and hearing the voices of educators (they are sadly unheard far too often). My approaches are also flavored by my lived experiences with trauma and in classrooms and workshops.
Technology and trauma: these are two T’s that will inform the future of education. We should not ignore either of them. Each of them has power and can allow us to develop practices that improve outcomes for all of our students.
How do you measure the impact of your innovative educational practices on students’ learning and well-being?
There are many ways to assess progress. We can look at student retention and completion rates at all levels. We can measure student progress — not just arbitrary benchmarks. We can look at whether students are progressing to higher education or further technical training. We can look at student mental wellness. Today, we tend to rely on scores on standardized tests. That is but one of many ways to measure impact and success.
What challenges have you faced in implementing your educational innovations, and how have you overcome them?
Change is hard. We need to acknowledge that. We need to admit that while we see gaps, we tend to want to do what we have always done. Doing new things, trying new innovations presents risks. They may not work. They may be difficult to replicate and scale. They may be challenging. But, failure to innovate is a greater risk in my view; if we stagnate, we fail to recognize our changing world and we will continue to lose students who do not see themselves fitting within the educational structure we have created. For change to work, it needs to occur at the micro, meso and macro levels. And we need the will to change. We also need collaboration and communication if change is to be facilitated.
Keeping in mind the “Law of Unintended Consequences” can you see any potential drawbacks of this innovation that people should think more deeply about?
Surely there are risks to everything. One risk is that we see “trauma” everywhere and we pathologize it. We look at it as a phase and we see that it is something “bad” or negative. We also create an illusion that we are being soft hearted and forgoing academic rigor; we are snowflaking as critics observe. This is not true at all; trauma responsive practices do not lessen learning or rigor but they do approach both differently. Yet, we run the risk of the pendulum swinging far to the other side if we don’t have the patience or will to innovate.
What are your “5 Things I Wish I Knew When I First Started”?
1 . I wish I had appreciated the reluctance to change more fully and the threat it presents to many. I knew this of course but I have something of a forward mindset.
2 . I wish I had learned to be more patient. Change, even caused by the Pandemic, causes disruption and patience is needed to enable lasting change. Buy-in is never immediate; if it is, it doesn’t endure.
3 . I wish I had appreciated how little we listen to the voices of educators. We also don’t implement their suggestions with regularity. It is sad because our failure to hear and listen makes teachers and others in education feel disenfranchised. I underestimated the level of “non-hearing.”
4 . I wish I had truly understood how little we recognize the importance of mental wellness — for teachers and students and parents and families. I see the stigma of mental illness way more clearly now. It is sad that we fail to see the needs of others.
5 . I wish I had been more cognizant of the need for self-care. Giving to others requires self-care; one cannot pour from an empty cup. Doing more and doing it longer does not always fill the cup. And, I am vastly better as suggesting self-care for others than I am in uptaking self-care myself.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
I have several but here are two: (1) Believe in the Power of the Possible; and (2) Education Happens in Many Places and Spaces of which the Classroom is but one. If I have said these phrases once, I have said them 10,000 times. Their meaning: Be positive and recognize that education must be broadly defined and it is a lifelong venture that take courage.
We are blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US, with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them 🙂
Oh, there are many such people. And, I would want to meet with them for different reasons. I would want to meet with some to get funding for projects that I think are worthy. Melinda French Gates is one such person. Breakfast or lunch would be wonderful. I would want to meet with some people to encourage them to be bigger and better role models. I get that we say that athletes and entertainers are not role models; parents are. But, that just isn’t true. Kids need role models who are not part of their family. So, on that front, I would want to have lunch with Colin Kaepernick; he’s a protester with a message that matters. He protested peacefully and has paid a steep price. Finally, I would want to meet with people who are in positions of power and success now, people who have changed the world for the better. I would want to meet with them for inspiration and for assurance that we are fighting the good fight and there is light at the end of the tunnel. I would want to meet with Jane Goodall. I would have wanted to meet Paul Farmer, but he died way too young.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
My website is the best way to see what I am doing and to reach out to me: www.karengrosseducation.com.
Thank you so much for these insights! This was so inspiring!
About The Interviewer: Eden Gold, is a youth speaker, keynote speaker, founder of the online program Life After High School, and host of the Real Life Adulting Podcast. Being America’s rising force for positive change, Eden is a catalyst for change in shaping the future of education. With a lifelong mission of impacting the lives of 1 billion young adults, Eden serves as a practical guide, aiding young adults in honing their self-confidence, challenging societal conventions, and crafting a strategic roadmap towards the fulfilling lives they envision.
Do you need a dynamic speaker, or want to learn more about Eden’s programs? Click here: https://bit.ly/EdenGold
Education Revolution: Karen Gross On Innovative Approaches That Are Transforming Education was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.