An Interview With Vanessa Ogle
Building on the point about intersectionality, it helps to take a privilige audit of the community. Who in this community is most privileged, and why? Who is least privileged, and why? By asking yourself these questions, you can begin to pursue equity over equality by working to center those who might be siloed or overlooked.
In a world where diversity is often acknowledged but not always celebrated, we are taking a step forward to highlight the importance of inclusivity in building strong, vibrant communities. This series aims to explore the various facets of diversity — be it racial, cultural, gender-based, or within the differently-abled community — and understand how embracing these differences strengthens our social fabric. As part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Surayya Walters.
Surayya Walters is a social entrepreneur, motivational speaker, life coach, writer, and advocate from New Rochelle, NY. She is the founder of iDEIntity, a nonprofit centered on diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI); and Purposeful Professional Media, a media initiative dedicated to helping people launch purposeful careers and lives. She enjoys listening to music, cooking, dancing, podcasting, and embracing all that life has to offer.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series. Before we dive into our discussion about celebrating diversity, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you share with us the backstory about what brought you to your specific career path?
Before this work was coined “diversity, equity, and inclusion” (DEI); it has been an integral part of my identity and my upbringing. Growing up as the daughter of Jamaican immigrants, the younger sibling of a sister with autism, in New York, and in the Christian faith — my entire childhood was a crash course in the importance of diversity. Add navigating the world as a young Black woman on top of that — I have countless stories exemplifying the resilience needed to move through society’s biases and -isms to still work hard and transcend the barriers and limitations placed on us. These intersecting identities — my intersectionality — gave me an early concern for social issues and issues of fairness, justice, and inclusivity. I have early memories of serving as a peer mediator on the playground, helping peers of diverse identities navigate conflicts. I’ve always had a passion for social impact and making a difference. This, combined with my own background and lived experiences, made DEI a natural fit. In college, I had an internship in project management for diversity and inclusion, and I loved it. It was unpaid, but I never forgot that feeling that I had — almost as if this was something I was destined to do. That fall, the door opened for me to join our school’s DEI student board. I eventually became a leader in the organization; and after graduation; I became an entrepreneur and innovator in this space. I feel a deep serendipitous connection with this work, almost as if I was destined to do it.
Can you share an interesting or hopeful story where spending time with someone who did not look like you or who was different from you taught you something that has been useful to you?
In college, my mentor and thesis advisor was a Caucasian man. He has taught me so much, about diversity, about research, about teaching. His class at my alma mater — organizational behavior — was one of the most popular classes on campus. Today, he is the reason why I want to eventually become a college professor. He helped me to uncover my thirst for seeking and sharing knowledge. He sponsored my undergraduate thesis, entitled “Psychometrically Analyzing The Career Choices of Undergraduate Business Students,” alongside two PhD scholars. This opportunity helped me to stretch myself and develop the research and analytical skills that serve me well as an entrepreneur today. I am indebted to him for his kindness and his willingness to take a chance on me. Through participation in the thesis program, other doors opened for me, such as attendance in the IDDEAS@MIT Sloan program for aspiring academics and business school researchers. After I am done with my run as an entrepreneur, motivational speaker, and writer — I hope to eventually teach what I know and give back to the next generation as a professor. I owe it to him to pay it forward and mentor the next generation of thought leaders and visionary entrepreneurs and leaders. Business school faculty, here I come!
You are a successful leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?
I wouldn’t classify myself as overly successful. I have just started my entrepreneurial journey. However, the three character traits I think are most instrumental to helping me progress and move forward are as follows, the three c’s: courage, compassion, and consistency. First and foremost, leadership requires courage. To lead is to stand up for what’s right and to push for changes when they are necessary. Sometimes you are the only one standing up to unjust systems or leading the change. Leadership is, by nature, a bit lonely. Leaders wouldn’t stand out if everyone was a leader. Everyone has the potential to lead, but few answer the call. It takes courage to get up and lead, to step up when others’ step back. I am grateful to God that he has given me a courageous spirit, and a willingness to “ speak truth to power.” My courage has helped me to take risks and speak up for the marginalized. The next trait is compassion. Compassion helps us work with a bigger picture in mind. When we operate out of compassion, we realize that our success is ultimately to benefit others. My compassion drives me to grow as a social entrepreneur, to promote solutions that are both profitable and humanistic. Lastly, consistency is another concept I value deeply. No matter how I feel, I try to show up everyday and make it my best day. That spirit of consistency — a willingness to continue and maintain momentum — has helped me as I’ve navigated the choppy waters of entrepreneurship.
Ok, thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the primary focus of our interview. Can you share a personal story that highlights the impact of diversity and inclusivity in your life or career?
One story that highlights the impact of diversity and inclusivity in my career is when I was rejected from a speaker collective due to not fitting their preferred “aesthetic.” I am a woman, in my early 20s, and I am African-American. Even in spaces that are unapologetically centered on diversity and inclusion, there can be subtle discrepancies or identities that are not accounted for. My journey with this speaker collective started when I was accepted as a member. During my membership period, everything was fine. However, when I decided I wanted to apply as a speaker — I received various comments pointing to my inexperience at some points, and over-experience at others. I was told that my resume was “intimidating,” but that my speaking came across as “inexperienced.” Due to this miscommunication, I came to the conclusion that I just wasn’t what they were looking for. It reinforced a sobering reality for me, that due to the color of my skin, my age, and my gender — and the layering of these aspects; I will never be enough for some. Even when I am “enough”, society might say I’m “too much.” Navigating between both of those extremes can be difficult, but the speaker collective experience reinforced the importance of seeking spaces where we are truly valued. Only where we are valued can we truly thrive and develop into all that we are created to be.
How do you approach and manage the challenges that arise when working towards creating more inclusive communities?
I’ve served as a student leader in diversity, equity, and inclusion and now as a social entrepreneur and innovator in the space. These experiences have provided me with insights into the challenges that can occur when trying to build a community in an inclusive manner or introduce inclusivity into a polarized community. There are a couple challenges I would like to consider when thinking about inclusivity and community. The first is: how can we honor intersectionality in this space? A major peril of inclusivity efforts is that we segregate identities instead of considering their layering effects. Using a privilege wheel can be a great way to understand how identities layer and create systems of marginalization. We have to go beyond just a simple categorization when planning inclusivity efforts, and begin to think about the whole human and their cumulative psychological and sociological experiences.
The second is: who are on the margins in this space, and how can we center them? Unfortunately, as humans, we have a tendency to create in-groups and out-groups. In every space, there is the potential for one group to be marginalized at the expense of another. However, the irony is that working for the most marginalized in a space will benefit everyone in the space. Centering those facing marginalization reinforces the concept of equity versus equality. Equity accounts for historical differences and its effects on particular demographic groups. Equality requires everyone to be treated the same. We want to pursue equity over equality in most cases. The last is: what does it mean to “belong” in this space, and how can we measure that? Measurement is often where DEI efforts drop the ball. In order to manifest inclusion, you have to stay on the pulse of things. You can commit to a quantitative and qualitative data analysis process to maintain an understanding of belonging over time; and commit to turning insights into tangible action.
What innovative strategies or initiatives have you implemented or observed that effectively promote the importance of diversity and inclusivity?
One innovative initiative that was implemented was my organization — iDEIntity’s — #Changemaker program. For this program, we invited early stage entrepreneurs into free Zoom workshops to learn more about diversity, equity, and inclusion and how it impacts an organization at its earliest stages. We also aimed to provide them with DEI mentorship and project management assistance to launch their own inclusivity efforts. This program model had its flaws, but it was successful from an awareness standpoint. Entrepreneurs often neglect DEI efforts for various reasons. Sometimes they don’t believe they can learn about racial equity and balance their entrepreneurial duties. Being a founder can be daunting, and inclusive people management can be an added stressor. However, our program made being an inclusive founder and entrepreneur more accessible for the audience, which I am pleased about. That was one win. This program also helped us to innovate on a new program model with software at the center, so it was good to test demand and willingness to participate in these efforts before taking the time to test and build.
In your opinion, what are the key elements that make a community truly inclusive, and how can these be fostered on a larger scale?
Three key elements that make a community truly inclusive are: inclusive leadership, community-driven values, and authentic expression. First and foremost, the importance of inclusive leadership should not be understated. If we claim to value diversity, equity, and inclusion but our leadership is not diverse — we’ve failed to turn our espoused values into enacted values. Leadership sets the tone. Simply from the visual of a racially homogenous leadership team, those who are from a different racial or ethnic background will not feel included. Second, the values must be community-driven. By community-driven, I mean that they should promote the opposite of “white supremacy culture,” and focus on creating a space that is co-created by leadership and community members. Lastly, individuals in the community should feel free to express themselves authentically, to raise concerns with leadership openly, and have those concerns addressed. A critical aspect of belonging is whether or not someone feels they can be comfortable within a space.
Based on your experience and research, can you please share “5 Ways We Can Build Inclusive Communities”?
1 . Consider intersectionality and its impact on community members
Intersectionality matters. When we take an intersectional approach to diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) we acknowledge and center the whole individual. This is critical to building trust and acceptance within the community. We bring our whole selves to the spaces we’re in and this takes a level of acceptance for belonging to occur.
2 . Look for those who exist on the margins and intentionally center them
Building on the point about intersectionality, it helps to take a privilige audit of the community. Who in this community is most privileged, and why? Who is least privileged, and why? By asking yourself these questions, you can begin to pursue equity over equality by working to center those who might be siloed or overlooked.
3 . Seek to define belonging and continuously measure it over time
Belonging, like any other metaphysical ideal, must be defined. Part of the struggle of diversity, equity, and inclusion work is the multitude of ways we can define these terms. However, creating a baseline definition and standard relative to your community or organization can create a benchmark that exists for years to come.
4 . Build your community with inclusive leadership at its core
There is no inclusivity if the leadership is not adequately diverse. For far too long, we have limited diversity to just a representative proportion of the population of any given community. However, inclusivity goes beyond diversity and considers itself with what perspectives are missing. Those missing perspectives, no matter how rare, need to be integrated and accounted for.
5 . Encourage community-driven values and authentic expression for co-creation
Antiquated leadership theories promote a top-down and hierarchical approach to organizational structures. However, when we think of the organizations and communities that center belonging; we can understand the role of a diffused structure and co-creation process. By allowing members to co-create the community, we can better lead with their needs, values, and preferences in mind.
How do you measure the impact and success of diversity and inclusion efforts, and what changes have you seen as a result of these initiatives?
The success of diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts can be measured in various ways. Given my penchant for research, I like to consider both quantitative and qualitative means of measuring the effectiveness of DEI programs. Some of the ways DEI can be measured include through pulse surveys, interviews, even by looking at pre-existing data and finding patterns. The most important thing when it comes to DEI is defining what metrics you will measure, and then how those metrics will be incorporated to achieve the desired result. When we aim to measure everything, we will accomplish nothing. It’s important to work back from what you want to use the data for, and then build metrics around that. That will ensure that your data analysis is purposeful and meaningful, rather than opening the door for analysis paralysis. Data should empower us, not cripple us and lead to indecision. It’s important to remember that when measuring the impact and success of DEI efforts.
You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
I would start a movement to fund DEI entrepreneurs and innovators with micro-grants and micro-lending efforts. At iDEIntity, we are working on solutions to bring DEI services at opportunity to under-resourced organizations at low or no cost. However, our five year plan is to launch an initiative called The COLORFUND with a wealth-reinvestment model into the entrepreneurs, leaders, and communities of color that are the backbone and the heart and soul of diversity, equity, and inclusion. Especially considering the vast defunding of diversity, equity, and inclusion at the corporate level and even the increasing amount of legislation against diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI), we are poised to make a true difference and help to save this work. I bet on entrepreneurs of color to be the ones to develop the DEI 2.0; which will involve building inclusive companies from the organization’s genesis. We favor a forward-thinking and proactive approach to diversity, equity, and inclusion and we want to continue supporting the leaders and founders that align with us on this mission. We are committed to continuously innovating and raising the bar.
How can our readers further follow you online?
Readers can keep up with my work by visiting my website, www.surayyawalters.com; with links to my ventures and engagements. They can also follow me on LinkedIn here.
Thank you for the time you spent sharing these fantastic insights. We wish you continued success in your great work!
About The Interviewer: Vanessa Ogle is a mom, entrepreneur, inventor, writer, and singer/songwriter. Vanessa’s talent in building world-class leadership teams focused on diversity, a culture of service, and innovation through inclusion allowed her to be one of the most acclaimed Latina CEO’s in the last 30 years. She collaborated with the world’s leading technology and content companies such as Netflix, Amazon, HBO, and Broadcom to bring innovative solutions to travelers and hotels around the world. Vanessa is the lead inventor on 120+ U.S. Patents. Accolades include: FAST 100, Entrepreneur 360 Best Companies, Inc. 500 and then another six times on the Inc. 5000. Vanessa was personally honored with Inc. 100 Female Founder’s Award, Ernst and Young’s Entrepreneur of the Year Award, and Enterprising Women of the Year among others. Vanessa now spends her time sharing stories to inspire and give hope through articles, speaking engagements and music. In her spare time she writes and plays music in the Amazon best selling new band HigherHill, teaches surfing clinics, trains dogs, and cheers on her children.
Please connect with Vanessa here on linkedin and subscribe to her newsletter Unplugged as well as follow her on Substack, Instagram, Facebook, and X and of course on her website VanessaOgle.
Celebrating Diversity: Surayya Walters Of iDEIntity On How To Build Inclusive Communities was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.