An Interview With Vanessa Ogle
Cultivate self-awareness — this is a lifelong journey. Know who you are, know your strengths, your weaknesses, your tendencies, your comfort zone, your values, your fears, your needs, your boundaries, etc. Know how you make others feel, know how you want to make others feel and then identify where those things don’t align and seek to understand why.
In a world where diversity is often acknowledged but not always celebrated, we are taking a step forward to highlight the importance of inclusivity in building strong, vibrant communities. This series aims to explore the various facets of diversity — be it racial, cultural, gender-based, or within the differently-abled community — and understand how embracing these differences strengthens our social fabric. As part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Allison Gilbert, Associate Director of DE&I, US/UK at RAPP Global.
Allison plays an integral role in RAPP’s ambitious strategy to grow and develop a diverse, equitable and inclusive workforce. American born and bred, she cut her teeth as a political organizer for reproductive rights before moving to London where she co-founded and co-chaired the Democrats Abroad UK Women’s Caucus in 2015. Drawing on her political organizing expertise and sociology background, she helps to bring about impactful business transformation while keeping her finger on the pulse of current affairs and culture.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series. Before we dive into our discussion about celebrating diversity, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you share with us the backstory about what brought you to your specific career path?
I’m a non-conventional person and so my path has been somewhat “winding” but, it basically all adds up to the making of me as a DE&I practitioner. I’ve always been a curious, creative and justice-seeking individual — I’m convinced it’s encoded in my DNA.
When I was in high school, I got my professional start as an intern and later Community Organizer for NARAL Pro-Choice New Hampshire. This experience formed the foundation for all my future endeavours and approaches around intersectionality, community-building and action, policy, education and experience with having challenging conversations.
I’ve subsequently worn many hats and did a couple of challenging and inspiring degrees in media and cultural studies (which I draw on all the time!). I started at RAPP in a communications role but over time, the need for DE&I has continued to grow and expand and so entering this field as a full-time practitioner happened somewhat seamlessly for me.
Essentially, my career and life experiences have culminated in preparing me to do this role where I am responsible for imagining and implementing business transformation using numerous and creative approaches all at once.
Can you share an interesting or hopeful story where spending time with someone who did not look like you or who was different from you taught you something that has been useful to you?
This is a hard question to answer because I feel everyone is my teacher. There is always something to learn from the people and environment you interact with if you pay close enough attention. I also have tried to live a varied life, seeking the unfamiliar as much as I can, so I am blessed with having these experiences regularly.
That said, two formative examples spring to mind.
The first being my grandfather who was an engineer and Lieutenant Colonel in the US Army. He taught me about the importance of having principles and values to guide me and ground my practice. He made a lot of difficult decisions, including eventually leaving his career when he faced a choice about progressing or maintaining his integrity as it pertained to his value for peace. He was a role model for my siblings and I, and showed us what humility, courage and integrity looks like at a high standard.
The second are the incredible women I worked with at NARAL Pro-Choice New Hampshire who were constantly seeking to challenge norms and conventions and sought to spotlight stories, experiences and needs of individuals who are too often buried and left unseen.
There were ways our identities and experiences intersected and diverged, but these women helped me lay a lot of the foundation for the framework I operate within by exploring my country’s history, politics and culture through the lens of bodily autonomy and reproductive freedom.
You are a successful leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?
I would say, humility, empathy and honesty are essential for any leader — and the more you flex these muscles the better. These qualities guard against cynicism, which I think destroys community.
Personally, I find these traits come together and are called upon through a Socratic-like approach to work and life more generally.
I try to start from a point of knowing that I don’t know everything and therefore seek to learn constantly. It doesn’t mean I abandon all self-awareness, but instead I strive to bring intention and real self-awareness to everything I do. This approach requires me to listen carefully, to ask good questions, and to focus on the situation I’m currently in so I know how to best support or influence.
Importantly, it also requires me to be fully present and to acknowledge the moments if/when I can’t give something or someone my undivided attention. On the occasions when I’m unable to be fully engaged, I am upfront about needing to take a step back until I know I’m prepared to be fully engaged — and then ensuring I eventually get back to it no matter what. Trust and respect by the people you lead must be earned, you don’t have a right to it; which is why circling back is critical.
Applying this approach is a lifelong practice, which requires you to keep yourself honest and present. Of course, I make mistakes and I will continue to make mistakes, but being grounded in these principles and approach has been the key to helping me grow as a leader and foster strong relationships.
How you live your life and what you value also informs the way you turn up at work, so I strive to take this approach in my life outside of work as well. It has helped me to be a better partner, family member, neighbor, and citizen — which in turn continues to help me to be a better colleague.
Life is messy, complicated, hard and beautiful; so, what I suppose I am saying is that this is also true for work and we can both accept this truth while striving to make ourselves and our communities the best they can possibly be. Let yourself experience awe and surprise!
Ok, thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the primary focus of our interview. Can you share a personal story that highlights the impact of diversity and inclusivity in your life or career?
This work has very little to do with me or my career, to be honest. Of course, I bring myself to this work as a practitioner because that is what DE&I requires to be successful — but equally de-centering myself in this work is essential as well.
That said, using myself as an example, when people see and/or meet me, they see someone who has lived a very privileged life. In many ways I have. I’m a white, cishet woman who is a native English speaker with an anglo name and a couple of degrees. I grew up in a nice, safe neighborhood with both parents at home and have been able to have lots of enriching experiences.
When people perceive me, however, they aren’t thinking about the gender-based harassment and abuse I’ve experienced, how I manage living with depression, the sacrifice and overwhelming grief I’ve experienced immigrating within the context of my family’s story, or how exposed it felt to be an undocumented worker.
We all have a load we’re carrying with us. Some of our life experiences and identities are very visible, but many of us also carry life experiences and identities that remain unseen and invisible.
Normativity is a trap and while it might feel like it saves us time and energy to make assumptions — we end up inadvertently reinforcing and doubling down on systems, conventions and beliefs that hurt us all. This is what I work hard to keep front of mind in the work I do and to remind those around me. To slow down and accept that we’re only able to see just the tip of the iceberg — there is so much more at play than we may ever know, so we need to be open and curious and strive to account for the most marginalized experiences and possibilities when approaching any situation.
How do you approach and manage the challenges that arise when working towards creating more inclusive communities?
I must regularly remind myself of two things: 1. That this is a never-ending journey, and 2. Change is scary for some.
While some things might seem obvious and simple to me, they may not be so for others. This work often requires taking numerous approaches all at once. Like planting lots of seeds and seeing what takes root, you have to let yourself be surprised by what pops up and be willing to adapt. Some of it will work and some of it won’t and that is okay!
You’ll also sometimes need to let people learn on their own through having the hard experiences first — and sometimes it takes putting things down to pick them up later.
Maintaining mental and emotional strength is therefore also important because you are a business transformation strategist and a lot of the emotional glue for the organization…but you also won’t have everything go according to your plan. Accept that it’s a moveable feast.
The key throughout all of this is maintaining transparency, authenticity, adaptability and integrity.
What innovative strategies or initiatives have you implemented or observed that effectively promote the importance of diversity and inclusivity?
Rightly or wrongly, I don’t think it’s up to us to make an argument for diversity and inclusion, but rather I believe the absence of diversity and inclusion makes the case for its own importance.
We’ve all seen and experienced the negative effects of a hivemind both on a micro and macro scale. No one can expect a homogenous group to arrive at the best possible solution if the issue or scope of a given situation feels too abstract or theoretical.
DE&I disrupts hiveminds from occurring, and more importantly it introduces complexity and richness that transforms the quality of our thoughts, decisions, and actions for the better. It offers approaches that are varied, nuanced and prioritized in a way that can meet the needs of the many and not the few. This is how we not only get to the best solutions and actions, but how we also foster growth and harmonious, thriving communities.
Based on your experience and research, can you please share “5 Ways We Can Build Inclusive Communities”?
1. Humility — assume nothing. You might be super smart (or at least think you are) but you will always have something to learn from every and any given situation. You do not know everything, and this is the essential fundamental truth you would benefit from reminding yourself of in every interaction and situation you find yourself. It also is the key to giving ourselves permission to apologize, which is sometimes hard! Does that mean you should gaslight yourself? No. It’s just a prompt to look at things from all different angles which brings me to my next two points:
2. Cultivate self-awareness — this is a lifelong journey. Know who you are, know your strengths, your weaknesses, your tendencies, your comfort zone, your values, your fears, your needs, your boundaries, etc. Know how you make others feel, know how you want to make others feel and then identify where those things don’t align and seek to understand why.
3. Curiosity — embrace learning and put it into practice. Don’t just be curious about yourself, open your heart up and be curious about others. Take an active interest in learning about the lives, needs and experiences of life that don’t belong to you — and then incorporate it. Bring that new knowledge to your job, your relationships, how you turn up, the decisions you make, what you value and why.
4. Generosity — Scarcity mindset breeds qualities that destroy communities. Cynicism, greed, unforgiveness, rigidity, elitism and inaccessibility keep us isolated and make everyone feel alone — and therefore disempowered. In the words of the Blues Brothers, “everybody needs somebody to love” — we all deserve that, so let’s impart that gift to one another and our planet and trust we’ll reap the virtuous returns on that.
5. Transparency and honesty — We all deserve the facts, it’s fundamental to showing respect! So, this means being transparent and honest with yourself and the people you’re interacting with — and asking for it in return. It might be difficult sometimes, but it can bring healing and will strengthen your community when it’s done with real integrity.
How do you measure the impact and success of diversity and inclusion efforts, and what changes have you seen as a result of these initiatives?
The game-changer for us has been overlaying quantitative and qualitative insights of and by our people.
We developed a bespoke DE&I Data workstream that captures a quarterly picture of our makeup across levels and departments on the basis of key identity markers — using an industry census and the UK census, we can see where representation is trending proportionately and where it’s skewing disproportionately.
We also look at rate of attrition and tenure because this snapshot provides us an indication of where things are going well in terms of some of our business transformation efforts and where we still have room to improve.
The data, however, doesn’t give the complete picture. So, we have developed various channels and forums for listening including closed Townhalls for safe sharing, anonymized 1–1 exit interviews with DE&I practitioners, business leadership interviews and a semesterly company-wide DE&I survey which is also anonymous.
Feedback through these various forums also help to fill in some blanks on where we’re experiencing challenges, what we need to prioritize actioning and how we can best approach it.
So, for example, through doing this project in the past year we learned that transparency around competencies, career progression, pay and internal mobility would be extremely supportive for our people and strengthen relationships within our business.
In another example, through examining our gender and ethnicity pay gaps, we’ve seen that the parenthood penalty especially impacts women in our business. We’re therefore currently seeking to address this by evolving our parental leave policy over time.
The numbers don’t lie — they’re important to have — but it’s essential to cultivate and maintain mutual trust and respect to get the real feedback that tells the story behind the data.
You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
This year the theme for our workplace DE&I community (The Neighborhood) is Solidarity for Collective Liberation. I love this approach because it is inherently an act of resistance against the systems and structures that seek to keep us divided. We are promoting solidarity between causes, interests and communities as a way of strengthening relationships and bearing witness to the ways our humanity is tied to one another’s and our planet.
Collective Liberation is our approach to building an inclusive community at RAPP and, hopefully, out in the wider world.
How can our readers further follow you online?
You can find me on LinkedIn.
Thank you for the time you spent sharing these fantastic insights. We wish you continued success in your great work!
I appreciate the forum to share my perspective. Thank you!
About The Interviewer: Vanessa Ogle is a mom, entrepreneur, inventor, writer, and singer/songwriter. Vanessa’s talent in building world-class leadership teams focused on diversity, a culture of service, and innovation through inclusion allowed her to be one of the most acclaimed Latina CEO’s in the last 30 years. She collaborated with the world’s leading technology and content companies such as Netflix, Amazon, HBO, and Broadcom to bring innovative solutions to travelers and hotels around the world. Vanessa is the lead inventor on 120+ U.S. Patents. Accolades include: FAST 100, Entrepreneur 360 Best Companies, Inc. 500 and then another six times on the Inc. 5000. Vanessa was personally honored with Inc. 100 Female Founder’s Award, Ernst and Young’s Entrepreneur of the Year Award, and Enterprising Women of the Year among others. Vanessa now spends her time sharing stories to inspire and give hope through articles, speaking engagements and music. In her spare time she writes and plays music in the Amazon best selling new band HigherHill, teaches surfing clinics, trains dogs, and cheers on her children.
Please connect with Vanessa here on linkedin and subscribe to her newsletter Unplugged as well as follow her on Substack, Instagram, Facebook, and X and of course on her website VanessaOgle.
Celebrating Diversity: Allison Gilbert Of RAPP Global On How To Build Inclusive Communities was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.