An Interview With Jake Frankel
Trying to publish a cookbook, or any book, is a long process. Being as impatient as I am, and having never done this before, I just assumed everything would come together in a few short months. Start to finish, this was a two-year endeavor.
Many successful people reinvented themselves in a later period in their lives. Jeff Bezos worked on Wall Street before he reinvented himself and started Amazon. Sara Blakely sold office supplies before she started Spanx. Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson was a WWE wrestler before he became a successful actor and filmmaker. Arnold Schwarzenegger went from a bodybuilder, to an actor to a Governor. McDonald’s founder Ray Kroc was a milkshake-device salesman before starting the McDonalds franchise in his 50s.
How does one reinvent themselves? What hurdles have to be overcome to take life in a new direction? How do you overcome those challenges? How do you ignore the naysayers? How do you push through the paralyzing fear?
In this series called “Second Chapters; How I Reinvented Myself In The Second Chapter Of My Life “ we are interviewing successful people who reinvented themselves in a second chapter in life, to share their story and help empower others.
As a part of this interview series, I had the pleasure of interviewing Kevin Pagenkop.
Born and raised in Wisconsin, Kevin Pagenkop spent the majority of his professional life working in Emergency Dispatch. After a couple decades in one of the world’s most stressful jobs, it was time to get back to the things he enjoyed: travel, photography, writing, and cooking. The Venn Diagram of his interests intersected at writing a cookbook. Badass Cookery & General Shenanigans is Kevin’s debut cookbook, a multiple-award-winning cookbook filled with humor, fun facts, movie references and kitchen hacks that brings a unique approach to the genre while sharing easy and delicious recipes. Kevin’s mission is to inspire others to focus on their mental health by exploring their passions — whether they are in the kitchen or elsewhere.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we start, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood backstory?
I grew up in the frozen tundra of Wisconsin embracing my nerdery. Movies, music, comics, D&D. My parents were very supportive of this and encouraged my creativity. Whether through music, or writing, or photography, I was happiest when exploring the artistic side of things. This has been a constant thread throughout my childhood as well as my adult life. I don’t like routine. Or status-quo. Or accepting things as they are. If I’m not trying to elevate them, jazz them up, add 37 pieces of flair, I get bored. This is probably what drew me to a job in emergency communications. Every day, every call, is something different.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
Randy Pausch has a great quote about how to reframe obstacles in your life. “…brick walls are not there to keep us out. The brick walls are there to give us a chance to show how badly we want something…” I used to get frustrated and disheartened when I did not immediately succeed at something. I always considered myself impatient, and I am, but this quote helped me realize that for those things that are truly worthwhile, or the things you are most passionate about, it may take more than one try. More than one day, or month, or years of trying. The difficulties and obstacles help steer you toward those endeavors that truly matter to you. Those that are worth the effort to keep trying, and failing, and then trying again.
You have been blessed with much success. In your opinion, what are the top three qualities that you possess that have helped you accomplish so much? If you can, please share a story or example for each.
Curiosity. I’m one of those annoying people that always has a fun fact to share. Whether it is trivia, or the etymology of words, or history, I like knowing where things come from. The science that drives things. I’ve always wanted to know the “why”. In addition to keeping your brain sharp, learning for nothing more than the sake of learning, also exposes you to paths in life that you might not have come across.
Fearlessness. I don’t mean a total lack of fear, because I am absolutely filled with fears. Rational and irrational. Heights, claustrophobia, snakes, meatless burger patties… But I’m not afraid of failure. The fear of failure has never stopped me from trying something new. Trying things that are beyond your range of skills or aptitude just helps you reset your own limitations. I’ve embraced that adage of “you don’t know until you try.” Carolina Reaper Hot Sauce? Sure, I’ll try it. And now I know that it brings tears and pain.
Details matter. As a 9–1–1 dispatcher, the devil truly is in the details. Missing a key piece of information on a call, or transposing digits when entering an address, can have truly life-impacting consequences. It’s human nature to want to take the path of least resistance or to cruise on mental auto-pilot. Our brains are built to identify shortcuts and develop workarounds. But taking an extra moment to be thorough, to review, re-read, spellcheck, ask questions — whatever it may be, will ensure you’re providing a higher quality of service or providing a better product. I’ve been criticized by being called a perfectionist, and have been told that I’m overly critical, but these are learned traits — and not ones that I consider as negative. Focusing on the minutia has helped me succeed in Emergency Communications, as an award-winning cookbook author, and in my personal life as well.
Let’s now shift to the main part of our discussion about ‘Second Chapters’. Can you tell our readers about your career experience before your Second Chapter?
I have yet to meet anyone whose childhood dream was to be a 9–1–1 Dispatcher. I, like so many others, just sort of fell into this job. And at the time, I had no idea it would become a career. And it has been an amazing and fulfilling experience.
When I was just starting out, I involved myself in as many areas of the job as I could. Volunteered to be a training officer, got into quality assurance, worked towards learning the management side of the center. Growth and advancement can come slowly in this job but I was fortunate to have opportunities open to me early in my career. Some of that is due to luck and timing but it can also be attributed to being prepared when those opportunities were presented. And when there were no opportunities, I was not afraid to step outside my comfort zone to try new things — which only opened more opportunities. In the two decades I’ve worked in this industry I’ve worked almost every position there is — currently serving as the Senior Manager of a private, emergency call center.
My proudest accomplishment is being invited to work with the International Academies of Emergency Dispatch — the premiere standards setting organization with the mission of improving dispatch services and communicator training worldwide. As a consultant and contract instructor, I provide support and development training to emergency communication centers around the world.
Being an emergency dispatcher is incredibly rewarding but not as glamourous, or recognized, as much as firefighters, EMTs, and law enforcement personnel. We’re the unseen professionals managing both the emotional callers as well as all of the resources at the scene — and all through a headset. I hope that my work with the I.A.E.D. continues to bring awareness and recognition to this unique, and often over-looked, but important, career.
And how did you “reinvent yourself” in your Second Chapter?
I wrote a cookbook. And I hate cookbooks. So I wrote the cookbook for everyone that hate cookbooks: “Badass Cookery & General Shenanigans”.
I’ve heard from so many people that they hate cooking. That it is a tedious chore. But cooking is my Zen. What better way to relax after work than zoning out on the chop-chop-chopping of prep work? Or the excitement of trying something new and having it turn out delicious. Or my favorite, seeing what gourmet dish you can work up with yesterday’s leftovers. But most of the cookbooks out there have boring, rigid recipes. I don’t necessarily mean that the food is boring — just the way the recipes are written. And recipes online are the worst. You’re forced to scroll through the author’s unrelated backstory before you’re provided with the actual ingredients and steps of making the dish.
So I set out to reinvent the format. If you have to suffer through reading, why not make the text nerdy, quirky, and filled with Star Wars quotes. Dishes are named after Lord of the Rings characters, obscure pop culture references, or my favorite childhood movies. Shoutout to Bruce Campbell! I don’t want to take anything away from my career, but developing this cookbook brought so much enjoyment and laughter, and yes, a ton of delicious food, that I wish I would have done this years ago.
Can you tell us about the specific trigger that made you decide that you were going to “take the plunge” and make your huge transition?
As rewarding as my job is, it is also one of the more stressful things you can choose to do for a living. Providing assistance to people during their worst moments, having to manage their grief, anger, frustration, impatience — all while remaining empathetic and professional, really takes a toll. Emotionally, cognitively, even physically. The cumulative affect of both chronic and acute stressors leads to burn-out, compassion fatigue, and a high attrition rate across the industry. When I realized that my mental health was being impacted, I decided I wanted to, needed to, do something about it. The catalyst was my wife.
She had to have surgery and it terrified me. It put all my other stress, and complaining, and work frustrations into context. Hard to focus on a work annoyance that seemed trivial in comparison to what my wife was going through. The best way I could support her was to be there for her. And be there in the right headspace. To be positive and present and happy. Sitting in the hospital I reviewed all of the things that brought me joy. I considered my hobbies and past interests determined to find something that would mitigate the stress of the job. Something positive I could focus on to be a healthier, happier person. I know that sounds saccharine and cliched, but in any relationship you sponge off the other person. Their moods impact your moods and vice versa.
What did you do to discover that you had a new skillset inside of you that you haven’t been maximizing? How did you find that and how did you ultimately overcome the barriers to help manifest those powers?
I was brought up in a food family and remember being interested in cooking at a very young age. In high school, with no formal training, I catered a family friend’s wedding. When I decided that I wanted to expand my skills and get some real kitchen experience, I packed my life into the back of a bright yellow Toyota Corolla and drove to New Orleans. I lived out of my car until I was able to find a restaurant that would hire me — and when it did, it was as a dishwasher. But I busted my ass to be the best dishwasher I could. I worked my way into the kitchen and then through each of the stations. While this was only a brief period of my young life, this foundation, and the passion for cooking, has always remained regardless of what I was doing to pay the bills. Because what you do for your job is not the same thing as who you are. So when I decided that I needed to improve my mental health, and reengage in a hobby or past passion, cooking was at the top of the list. Combine my love of writing and photography and the Venn Diagram of my interests intersected at writing a cookbook.
How are things going with this new initiative? We would love to hear some specific examples or stories.
In addition to making the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs, “Badass Cookery & General Shenanigans” was a finalist in the American Book Fest Best Book Awards, a finalist in the National Indie Excellence Awards for Best Cookbook of 2023, and was the winner of the Next Generation Indie Book Awards.
Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
This is a punt, and a cliched one at that, but there are too many people to name. I have had the privilege of working with some inspiring and committed telecommunications professionals from my first day under the headset to today. We take away something from every person we interact with. Whether their influence is large or small they are all part of our story. Even the bad interactions. The doubters, those that tell you you’re wasting your time or will fail, are still part of your journey because they add fuel to your fire to succeed.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you started in this new direction?
As an author, seeing your book on the shelf at a bookstore has got to be one of the most thrilling experiences. I know we live in the digital age but I’m still a sucker for the look, and smell, of an actual bookstore. It’s also been a lot of fun hearing from dispatchers I’ve worked with who have come across the book and gotten insight into a different part of who I am. I mean, I’ve always been nerdy and annoying people with Dad Jokes and fun facts, but I like showing them that we’re all multifaceted. We all have talents, known and those yet to be discovered. Life is too short to work just to pay the bills. Everyone should embrace their own badassery.
Did you ever struggle with believing in yourself? If so, how did you overcome that limiting belief about yourself? Can you share a story or example?
All the time. And I still do. Sometimes multiple times in a day. I second-guess almost every decision I make. But I learned to work through this by focusing on past experiences and relating them to the present. In the present, our perception is too narrow and often influenced by emotion and fear. Looking backwards, we see the past more clearly and objectively. So I give myself confidence by finding past instances where I was successful, or made the right decision, or did something that I generally felt good about. I apply that to the Now and take reassurance from the remembrance of how scared, or doubtful, or pessimistic I was then, and that I overcame it.
In my own work I usually encourage my clients to ask for support before they embark on something new. How did you create your support system before you moved to your new chapter?
A vital part of the creative process is feedback. At some point, someone has to read what you’ve written. Taste what you’ve cooked. And this is terrifying. Any critique or criticism isn’t simply objective feedback of your text or dish — but of you. And who wants to ask for feedback that might hurt their feelings or upset their fragile ego? But through my experience in quality assurance with emergency communications, I reminded myself that you can’t grow without guidance. You can’t improve without someone you trust telling you the truth. It was through this process that my wife became my strongest support system — and dedicated food taster. As an aside, she got a shoutout on the back cover of the book as I quoted the line I heard throughout the development of the recipes: “I don’t love it”. Ya have to appreciate both the honesty and the tact.
Starting a new chapter usually means getting out of your comfort zone, how did you do that? Can you share a story or example of that?
I’ve never had a problem getting out of my comfort zone. My motor revs pretty high and I don’t like sitting still or being in a routine. So I never shy away from trying something new. But I did, and do, struggle with imposter syndrome. There is always that voice in the back of your head telling you there are better chefs. Better writers. Others that have had greater success and larger audiences and more followers. So you feel small, and often fake, in comparison. I had to remind myself that it isn’t a competition. I’m not trying to be in first place — just trying to run at my own pace. I’m never going to be Alton Brown — culinary genius — and that’s okay. My advice to anyone starting a second chapter, or taking on a new endeavor later in life, is to do it for you. Measure success by your own metrics. I’m proud of my cookbook because it made my kids laugh. It honored my family with some nostalgic memories and recipes. And, in general, made me happier — which made me a better husband and partner to my wife. And what’s more important than that?
What are your “5 things I wish someone told me before I started” and why?
- Trying to publish a cookbook, or any book, is a long process. Being as impatient as I am, and having never done this before, I just assumed everything would come together in a few short months. Start to finish, this was a two-year endeavor.
- Set up a schedule. The difference between a writer and an aspiring writer is that a writer writes. If not every day, then routinely. After working all day, it was not easy coming home and trying to force myself to write, to cook, to be creative. It would have been a lot easier if I had made a schedule. Whether one recipe a week, or setting aside a Saturday afternoon to stage and photograph the food, or a chapter a month, a structured plan would have been a lot less stressful.
- Understand the value of social medial. After completing the book, I assumed this laborious journey was over. I’m comfortable with recipes and food photos but had no idea how to stand-up a website or use social media for exposure and advertising.
- Don’t write a cookbook.
- Don’t write a cookbook. Kidding, not kidding. The internet is the ultimate warehouse of recipes and cooking tips. While there are certainly those that prefer the look, feel, and ease of opening up a book on their kitchen counter, this is an extremely difficult genre to get into.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
Access to food and clean water should be a basic human right and not based on location, status, or income. The food waste in our country is embarrassing. While we enjoy access to food everywhere, from grocery markets to drive-through restaurants to vending machines wherever we look, the unsold food is often just discarded. We need to change the way we think about food and develop cost-effective ways to get this food distributed to schools, shelters, food banks, and other organizations that have the opportunity to get it to those that need it most. Consider the amount of food prepared and wasted at major sporting events. Or the amount of food present at most airports. This could provide meals to not hundreds, but thousands, of people and families that go hungry each day.
We are very blessed that some very prominent names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them. 🙂
Jeremy Renner. While most know him as an amazing actor, he is also a huge supporter of public safety and emergency services — especially the Fire Service. He’s even trained with our local fire department and owns his own fleet of restored, vintage engines and trucks. Many celebrities endorse products or have side businesses but few are so dedicated to helping their neighbors and supporting the community they live in.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
Anyone interested in the world’s nerdiest cookbook, “Badass Cookery & General Shenanigans”, can find it primarily on Amazon. For further shenanigans, I maintain the world’s worst website where I share fun facts, recipes, and nerdy references to movies and shows. It is www.BadassCookery.com
Thank you so much for sharing these important insights. We wish you continued success and good health!
Author Kevin Pagenkop: Second Chapters; How I Reinvented Myself In The Second Chapter Of My Life was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.