An Interview With Cynthia Corsetti
Trust the team. WHO not HOW. I have empowered my team to come up with strategies and change processes to make us more efficient. We have been fortunate that we have found some excellent people, shown them the process, asked them that they learn and use that process and then enhance it. Make it better. I know that I do not know everything. If you can create a better mousetrap, by all means go for it!
In this introspective and reflective series, we would like to explore the intricate web of experiences that form the leaders of today. Childhood, being the foundational stage of our lives, undeniably has a profound impact on our development and the leadership styles we adopt as adults. Be it a lesson learned from a parent, a childhood hobby that cultivated discipline, an early failure that fostered resilience, or even a book that opened their minds to vast possibilities; leaders often have deep-seated childhood experiences that echo in their leadership narratives today. For this interview series, we are talking to seasoned leaders across various industries who share personal anecdotes and lessons from their childhood that have sculpted their leadership philosophies today. As part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Brian Thomas.
Brian Thomas is the founder of THOMAS LAW, a Chicago based law firm engaged in the representation of individuals and families that have suffered catastrophic losses due to the conduct of others in personal injury, workers compensation, medical malpractice and wrongful death. Due to his achievements and reputation within the Chicago legal community, he was named one of Illinois top 40 attorneys under the age of 40; this honor is achieved by less than 1% of all Illinois attorneys. He has also been regularly named an Illinois Super Lawyer.
In 2021, with the help of Illinois State Representative Maurice West, he drafted a law making it illegal to call the police on people of color in public spaces simply because they are people of color. He has served as a director on boards for entities involved in fair housing in Chicago and mentorship for children in underserved communities. He has also been featured as an in-studio guest on Chicago radio discussing state and local politics.
Brian authored the book, The Privilege Race, due to be released on February 6, 2024.
Brian received his law degree from DePaul College of Law in Chicago and received his bachelor’s degree from University of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign.
He is a kidney transplant patient. The experience provided context to his life from an early age, as he has a deep understanding of the preciousness of life, good health and the importance of intentionally living a life you want to live.
Brian lives in Northbrook, Illinois, with his wife and two children, where in his spare time he follows his children around in their sports and theatrical endeavors.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series. Before we dive into our discussion about leadership, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you share with us the backstory about what brought you to your specific career path?
I have practiced law in Illinois for over 20 years; I have owned my own firm for ten of those years. My mother put me on the “attorney” path. Growing up, far too often my mother said:
“you have an answer for everything… you should be a lawyer.” And now decades later, I sit in my law office typing these words. I don’t think my mother intended on that messaging to put me in this seat. However, here I sit. And although it has been a great career, I find myself wondering where would I be if I didn’t hear that messaging at such an early age (or if I talked back less!).
What do you think makes your company stand out? Can you share a story?
We are a personal injury firm, so all of our clients experienced an incident that has taken some aspect of their health and well-being away from them. I am a kidney transplant patient, having undergone the procedure twice — once at 13 years old and again at 32. Having chronic kidney disease also led to significant hip issues having had three past surgeries and a current candidate for two hip replacements.
These experiences have helped me discuss ongoing medical issues with my clients from a different perspective than many of my peers. I understand the frustration of limitations due to medical issues. I understand what it feels like to have pain wake you up in the middle of the night. I understand what it can take, mentally, to get through an average day with chronic pain.
The mental and physical exhaustion that breeds. I really want our clients to focus on their health and well-being while we take care of everything else so they can really focus on getting back — if not better — than where they were pre-injury.
You are a successful business leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?
Persistence
When I started my firm, I remember thinking daily: how am I going to do this? Can I do this?
Can I manage a law firm? What person will want me as their attorney as opposed to my old law firm? These questions rattled my brain so much that I developed anxiety. Would I be able to feed my family? Would I fail?
Ultimately, it was showing up day after day that made the difference. Even though I wondered if I would succeed, I found that getting to my desk and starting work, those questions would dissipate. I was forced to do the work: go to court, take depositions, talk to clients. When I was doing the work, I didn’t have the time to dwell on the nagging questions.
Some days were better than others. But I found that as I continued to do the work, the questions that nagged me were being answered. Yes, I can manage a law firm. Yes, I can get clients and Yes, people wanted ME to act as their attorney. Yes, I can do this. It’s interesting how once those questions were answered, a host of different questions enter the mind.
Resilience
Money is a big issue when you own a business. In terms of owning a personal injury firm, I do not receive monthly checks or retainers from my clients, I get paid when the case is over. That means, especially when I started, there were many lean times. Money can flow in like flood water, but it can also trickle in. There were plenty of times when I started out that I had to go into my savings to pay staff or pay rent or other expenses. Being resilient — continuing to show up for my clients — was difficult at times because there were times that I would measure myself based upon my bank account. My chest would puff when there was a lot of money in the business account; the opposite would happen when there wasn’t. It was a process to learn that just because money wasn’t flowing in at any particular moment, it did not characterize who I was as an individual or a lawyer. It only meant cases weren’t settling at that time. That also meant learning not to listen to the voice that told me I was the greatest when I was making deposits.
I always tell attorneys when they go out on their own that continuing to show up as yourself day in and day out regardless of what is in the operating account is so important. Don’t get to high when the account is full and don’t get too low when it’s empty.
Hard work
I was fortunate that school was relatively easy for me. I could show up and do relatively well.
That ended when I started law school, I found I had to work harder and differently when I walked through the door. I was also intimidated by many of the brains that sat around me or taught me. When I graduated, I convinced myself that while I may not be the smartest person in the room, I would never be outworked. I can’t control how intelligent I am versus my opposing counsel, but I can control my preparation level.
That belief caused me to work hard. The ability to work hard is a key character trait I learned from my parents — as I saw both of them work hard in school and their careers to ascend the economic ladder.
There is a dark side to hard work when you live in a profession where there is always work to do.
It becomes difficult to see wins because there is always more work to take on. There is always something else that needs attention.
Although being a hard worker is an excellent character trait probably necessary to get ahead in your work life, it is just as necessary to learn how to dim that character trait so you can connect with people outside the office and take care of yourself. It is very easy to fall victim to overwhelm, stress, burnout, and reliance on drugs or alcohol to manage the stress that comes with overwork.
Leadership often entails making difficult decisions or hard choices between two apparently good paths. Can you share a story with us about a hard decision or choice you had to make as a leader?
I’m curious to understand how these challenges have shaped your leadership.
Unfortunately, some people on the team are not great fits. The hard choices I have made include allowing those people to move on to find positions that better fit their strengths or to learn lessons in the profession they were not learning from me. Honestly, the first time this needed to happen, it took me a while to pull the trigger because I liked the employee personally; they were a good person. That said, other team members saw that person as being a lag on what we were accomplishing and ultimately, taking responsibilities away from that person and allowing them to leave soon thereafter was the tough decision but best for the organization.
Again, revenue is important in a small business. Another tough decision is making a hire. There is the “can I afford to bring on this person?” talk in a small organization. I have found changing that question to: “Can I afford NOT to bring on this person?” more fruitful.
Ok, thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the primary focus of our interview. Let’s start with a simple definition. How do you personally define “leadership?”
To define “leader” I think we need to ask the people by whom they are led.
As I learned how to be a good attorney, the people I was led by included one individual who rolled up his sleeves up and was not afraid to get in and do the hard work to building a case on behalf of our clients. Did I want my boss in the foxhole with me? With respect to one attorney who taught and led me, that answer was always a resounding yes.
That is the way I choose to lead. I hope my team works hard, not because I pay them to work hard or because I tell them to, but because they see me working hard. I try to lead from the front.
They see that I am usually the first one in the office and the last to leave. They know I am working and therefore will want to work hard too.
That said, I also think a leader must earn loyalty. I understand I work hard and do not want to overwork people. Therefore, the benefits I give myself apply to everyone. We all get our birthdays off. We all get to work from home once a week. Our firm does not have a vacation policy — a policy our team has yet to abuse. We have summer hour Fridays that apply on nice spring and fall days too. I have forced team members to take time off (because they were working too much).
I’ve seen lawyers treat employees like widgets — with a “they should work because I pay them” mentality. I don’t see that as leadership. Leadership is doing the work with them, creating an atmosphere where the team likes coming to the office and then giving the team the same perks as its leader.
Can you recall an experience from your childhood where you felt truly empowered? How does that moment inform your leadership style today?
I always felt empowered when my teacher used something I said to them in the past and included it to make a point with me. I am empowered when I am heard. Because of that, I am very intentional about listening to our team and using their feedback to make decisions.
Were there any role models in your early years who left a lasting impression on you? How has their influence manifested in your approach to leadership?
Rocky Balboa is my role model. I understand he is a fictional character and may fit better as the answer to the next question, however, that is who he is to me. One of my favorite scenes in the original Rocky film was his first training run after he agreed to fight the heavyweight champion, Apollo Creed. He gets up before dawn, drinks five or six eggs, and does a nine second stretch before taking off on his run. Ultimately, he gets to his destination: the Philadelphia Art Museum.
After this first run when he gets there, he struggles up the steps, huffing and puffing. He makes it to the top and has this look in his eyes like “what did I get myself into?!?” He wheezes and emits a small cry as he turns around and starts down the steps, clearly in pain.
Juxtapose that with the scene after he has completed his training where he bounds up the steps with vigor and passion. Rocky shadow boxes in triumph. At that moment, the fight — and its outcome — did not matter. What mattered was that he was prepared. He did the work and knew that he was in the best shape of his life and ready to take on Apollo.
That mentality speaks to me. It tells me that the process of getting yourself ready to do things — the hard and the easy — is more important than the outcome. I’m not trying to diminish the importance of outcomes; but I also know that the outcome is not something we always control. What we control is our own process and preparation.
If we find our process and preparation does not lead to good outcomes, then we change the process. We control the controllables and expect good results but are not married to results. As long as we go into our fights with our Apollo Creeds best prepared at that moment, the outcome will be what it is.
Many leaders find that their greatest strengths arise from overcoming adversity. Can you share an experience from your early life that was difficult at the time, but you find still lingers in your thoughts and informs your actions today?
I had a kidney transplant at 13 years old. In the months leading up to that transplant, I specifically remember my body breaking down. I was always tired. I lost weight I did not have.
I did not have an appetite. I was always focused and concentrating on how difficult it was to do everything. I was no longer a vibrant 13-year-old boy, but a frail, seemingly 90-year-old man stuck in this sick little body.
After the transplant and a full month at University of Chicago recovering, I started to improve. It was a lot of work. I found myself changing my mindset from sick and frail kid to vibrant and healthy. I don’t know that this was true all the time — there were still days that my little body needed rest. But changing my mindset into one where I wasn’t sick and frail, but who I wanted to be — a carefree and strong teenaged boy — was something I found myself working on. And with that work, I found that I started doing things that a carefree and strong teenaged boy would do. After I started working at doing these different things, with the work, I found success and made progress and became much more confident in who I was being.
That remains true today. As I started my business, I wondered if I could earn a living as a business owner. But in changing my mindset from one who questioned whether it could be done, to someone who was a thriving business owner, I continued showing up. Having that mindset caused me to do the work and one day I woke up as the owner of a thriving business.
As my business grew, I wanted to take a stab at something that I had always wanted to do but never had the time: becoming a published author. Using the same strategies from after my transplant, I did these little things that I thought published authors did. Like the doctors, nurses and therapists that guided me back to health, I put people around me that helped guide me to published author. And now, my book is set to be released in February 2024.
Looking back at your childhood, are there particular ;first-time experiences — like your first triumph, your initial setback, or your inaugural leadership responsibility — that you believe were pivotal in molding your leadership ethos?
The Dead Poet’s Society came out in 1989. I was in high school and had a massive crush on a classmate. We were friends and hung out, but she didn’t know how I felt. After seeing The Dead Poet’s Society I had my carpe diem moment and told her.
The story does not end with us together, happily ever after with a bunch of kids and a white picket fence. As a matter of fact, we never dated. However, our relationship changed in a positive way. There was a curiosity and seriousness about me that she hadn’t shown before.
And although we never ended up dating, I was proud of myself for speaking my truth. I didn’t walk around her with this weight or burden on my shoulders anymore. I was freer to be myself around her, which ironically, brought us closer in that we were much more honest with each other.
Speaking your truth — or at least heading in the direction of your truth — remains important to me today. Trust me, I go off course and make mistakes and at times wish I would have pivoted earlier, however, I am aware of figuring out what my truth is and making decisions that better reflect that person rather than just going along to get along.
This helps our firm because that is the expectation here. What is it you need to be your most effective self? What do you need to be the person you want to be?
That is important because for us to be the best organization possible, we need everyone pulling on the same side of the rope. There are times when a team member or two have to drop out of the tug of war for whatever reason. When that has happened, we have found that the other team members take up the slack because we all realize that when we fall off, our other teammates will also pick up our slack. We pull for each other because we are encouraged to speak — and hopefully live — our truths.
From your personal experiences and reflections, what are the Pillars of Effective Leadership you believe in?
1 . Earn loyalty. I know my team can get a paycheck anywhere. I seek to create a culture here where they do not want to go just anywhere to earn a paycheck. I worked at a firm where when I pressed the elevator “up” button every morning, I had a knot in my stomach. I have very intentionally tried to create a different experience here. I often note in the interview process that while I expect there will be mornings that you rather not get out of bed, once you get to the office a calm will hit and you’ll be OK that you’re in the office. They know they are valued and appreciated. I have not had much turnover here.
2 . Do the work; do what you expect them to do. Of course, we all have roles on the team. I have found it’s easier for my team members to do what they do, when they know I have and will do it too. Nothing is below my pay grade. Of course, this is a dance as I can’t spend all my time filling the copier with paper, however, they need to know that I will do it. That I will get the job done too.
3 . Let your team know they are appreciated. It is similar to a relationship with a significant other or partner — you need to let them know that you do not take them for granted. Sometimes that is as easy as telling them that; and at other times, it is putting a check in their hands or giving them time off or closing the door and saying: you have been working hard, I see and appreciate it, but so you don’t burn out, I need you to take a vacation. Schedule one.
4 . Trust the team. WHO not HOW. I have empowered my team to come up with strategies and change processes to make us more efficient. We have been fortunate that we have found some excellent people, shown them the process, asked them that they learn and use that process and then enhance it. Make it better. I know that I do not know everything. If you can create a better mousetrap, by all means go for it!
5 . Play to the team members’ strengths. Some of my team members are better researchers and writers whereas some are so much better on the phone with clients and other attorneys. We have been very intentional about bringing good people in and then seeing where they fit. We have hired the person rather than the job. That way, we have an excellent person as part of the team and then as we see their strengths and weaknesses put them in the place where they can have the most beneficial effect. Also, when we are looking to make a hire, we ask current team members:
“what do you NOT want to do anymore? What do you want to do more of?” and hire based upon those answers (in conjunction with their strengths).
In your role as a leader, what thoughts or concerns keep you awake at night? How do these reflections guide your decisions and leadership?
I feel like the organization is bigger than its parts, but also feel like there are a few people that if they left, there would be a huge void. Keeping these people happy and engaged is something that keeps me up at night. I almost can’t afford for a few team members to leave. It would be like the Bulls losing Scottie Pippen. You gotta keep Scottie happy so the organization wins.
You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
My movement is having people rely upon themselves to create their best lives. That our decisions create consequences; we are not victims of circumstances. The thesis of my book, The Privilege Race, is that the consequences of our past decisions create the world where we sit today. That mindset empowers the individual to build the life they want to live.
I would highlight this with respect to politicians and the promises we hear. No politician is going to make my life better, yet every four years (two or six for representatives and senators), they make promises to us about how our lives will be better if we vote for them. Ironically, they make the same promises to us four years later.
I want Americans to know that they can rely upon themselves, and not a politician, to make their lives better. That we can trust ourselves. Presidents Obama or Trump or Biden didn’t put my life in its current state. I did. Once we, as a country, take responsibility for our own personal lives, I think you’ll see that the country starts to get better. A rising tide truly does raise all ships. We individual Americans are that tide.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
I can be found at ThomasLawChicago.com; ThePrivilegeRace.com; on IG at BrianThomas2.0; Facebook at Brian Thomas 2.0 and X at ThePrivilegeRace.
Thank you for the time you spent sharing these fantastic insights. It’s been an honor to delve into the roots of your leadership journey, and we are grateful for the wisdom you’ve shared.
About the Interviewer: Cynthia Corsetti is an esteemed executive coach with over two decades in corporate leadership and 11 years in executive coaching. Author of the upcoming book, “Dark Drivers,” she guides high-performing professionals and Fortune 500 firms to recognize and manage underlying influences affecting their leadership. Beyond individual coaching, Cynthia offers a 6-month executive transition program and partners with organizations to nurture the next wave of leadership excellence.
Brian Thomas: Here Are The Things That Happened in My Childhood That Impact How I Lead Today was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.