There is something quite rational about wanting to control the world around us. Indeed, this is how most of us get from one day to the next. Feeling that everything is under control is, for many, a good feeling. As it turns out, being in control is one of our primary survival tools, and for a very good reason. Life is hard, and the only assurance we have of successfully navigating its ups and downs is by doing our best to control the never-ending challenges and subsequent contradictions it presents. Feeling that we’re in control of our lives reassures our future, thereby affirming our ability to face life’s abundant contradictions.
As part of my series about “authors who are making an important social impact”, I had the pleasure of interviewing Rogers Follansbee. Rogers Follansbee, PhD graduated from the Universidad de Navarra (Pamplona, Spain) with a master’s degree in philosophy. In 1971, he acquired a master’s degree in clinical psychology from the Universidad de Madrid. From 1969 to 1974, during his post-graduate studies at the Universidad de Navarra, he instructed undergraduates in “The History of Psychology” and “Psycho Diagnostics.” He also held graduate seminars where his emerging theory was introduced. In 1974 Rogers successfully defended his dissertation, “La Teoría de la Relacionabilidad,” and was awarded a Summa Cum Laude qualification.
In the 1970s, he married, and in 1980, moved with his family to the United States, where he continued to develop his Theory of Relationability (now Structured Psychology). Learn more at Structuredpsychology.com.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Before we dive into the main focus of our interview, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood backstory?
I was born near Chicago, attended schools there until I was ten, then continued my studies on the East Coast. Then, as an older teenager, I went to spend what I believed would be a few weeks abroad, visiting countries like Morocco, Switzerland, and others. On my way back to the States, I stopped in Madrid, only to stay for a couple of days. But I met a family there who introduced me to Spain as a culture, and I found myself captivated. Indeed, I was so taken with life there that I didn’t return to the U.S. Soon, I enrolled at the University of Madrid, then to the Universidad de Navarra in the North, where I eventually developed the theory of Structured Psychology.
When you were younger, was there a book that you read that inspired you to take action or changed your life? Can you share a story about that?
Catcher in the Rye. I think that the story makes you feel as though you’re not all alone in this world and actually do have a future. You have someone else out there who has gone through what you’re going through and who feels the way you feel now. That kind of extension of one gives meaning to the way you feel and the way you react to life itself.
It has been said that our mistakes can be our greatest teachers. Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
I’m afraid our time limit wouldn’t allow me to discuss all the mistakes I’ve made over the years. However, the most motivating mistake I ever made was to try to understand psychological Projection: the task I assigned myself to complete for my doctoral thesis. It took nearly two years out of my life to finally understand and accept the fact that what we (psychologists to be) had been taught about Projection over the years wasn’t Projection at all, a fact that pushed me into looking further — much, much further into the reasons why humans seemingly projected in the first place. This new understanding of what classical psychology thought to be some sort of defence mechanism soon became the central point of Structured Psychology itself.
Can you describe how you aim to make a significant social impact with your book?
The book wasn’t written to make an impact. Impacts (especially those that impress others) are nice because they further confirm our value as citizens of the world. There’s no question that we all look to make some sort of a positive impact.
But again, I’m not looking to make some sort of social impact with the book. I’m simply trying to generate interest in human behavior in general. It’s vital to me that people correctly understand why we all think, feel, and do the things we do.
The book’s title is It’s Not Your Fault, and I do mean that. So, if the way we behave is not really our fault, whose fault is it? To best answer that question, keep in mind that it is not a question of who is responsible for how we live our lives, but rather identifying what elements are necessary in all human beings in order to continue existing. Indeed, it is an impersonal, autonomous, logical Structure that is the ultimate responsible entity that drives our thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. In view of this, and being the relational souls that we are, we now should be able to recognize, respect, and deal rationally with ourselves and those around us. Live and let live, as they say.
Can you share with us the most interesting story that you shared in your book?
The short stories or vignettes that are used as “real-life examples of human behavior” weren’t intended to be interesting but rather simple examples designed to reinforce the key concepts of Structured Psychology. If you take, for example, the vignette on Rodney, our teenage basketball star. His plight was one that I believe many of us have experienced over the course of our lives — and probably more than once. When our environment tells us or shows us that we are not the person we have thought ourselves to be, the contradiction we receive for surmising that we may “not be who we think we are” can be psychologically Earth shattering. That said, once we fully understand “why” we “structurally” feel the way we do, an avenue of relief soon becomes available to us.
All humans share one central goal: live conflict-free, happy, and productive lives. However, almost immediately, we discover that no one is psychologically structured in a way that allows us to enjoy totally conflict-free living. The very fact that there are differences of physical, mental, and social significance between us all, as well as between who we are and every “thing” else, automatically implies that the relationships we generate daily are all open to contradiction and conflict.
Understanding what actually causes us to think, feel, and behave the way we do can go a long, long way to helping us maintain our psychological equilibrium. I’m not implying that understanding how we are structured is some sort of panacea or silver bullet. And yet, understanding what causes the way we feel and behave is always a first step in turning trauma into triumph. After all, if you don’t know how something works, there’s little hope you’ll be able to fix it (you and an equally knowledgeable therapist, that is).
What was the “aha moment” or series of events that made you decide to bring your message to the greater world? Can you share a story about that?
I don’t know if there was one. I spent years trying to explain that which I felt was obvious, not remembering how long it took for me to find that something, that pivotal missing link that would finally allow us to understand why we think, feel, and do the things we do. In the meantime, I learned that understanding how we’re structured is a sure way any of us has to help alleviate our psychological suffering.
After receiving my doctorate in 1974, I set my sights on testing and retesting the theory that had inadvertently emerged. In doing so, I made any number of adjustments as to how my discovery explained our day-to-day lives and psychological well-being. Now, I feel ready to share my findings and expose this new way of understanding what it means to be psychologically alive. For example, understanding what simple relational activity implies is key. My hope now is that by understanding the true causes of human behavior, not only will we all be better equipped to understand and alleviate the psychological distress many of us feel, but we will understand ourselves and others with far more accuracy, thereby almost entirely eliminating the anxiety and stress that ignorance brings to us all.
Without sharing specific names, can you tell us a story about a particular individual who was impacted or helped by your cause?
I’ve had several patients who suffered from any number of typical conflicts. What is often the case, these patients felt that they were being subjected to a scenario they could no longer understand or control. However, once each patient was able to understand how The Structure worked, they were able to rid themselves of the majority of the anxiety they were feeling and regain control of their lives.
There are any number of psychological implications that the union between who we are genetically, and our relational environment can create, and yet its true etiology has remained a mystery. When our two selves (genetic and environmental) are in alignment, or, if you wish, on the same relational page, our identities are easily affirmed, and our lives feel that they are on solid footing. For example, if we’re born with an affinity to read, and we live surrounded by an environment that admires readers, we’re golden. But many times, environments are not at all in sync with one’s genetically spawned talents, and conflict appears.
Forced to operate in conflict mode, inner conflicts can quickly arise causing emotional responses that heavily influence the way we behave. Understanding this, it’s easy to see how daily life can inflict multiple jabs to our emotional health. Often these are simple, mundane prods, like wanting an ice cream cone but finding the ice cream shop closed, or needing silence when someone’s car alarm won’t stop blaring. But other times, contradictions of this nature can take on more sinister tones.
When we say that our genetic selves can come into conflict with our environmental selves, remember that, just like that two-sided coin that desperately needs it’s both sides to be what it is, the only way we can be who we are is by having our genetic selves bound, like conjoined twins, to our environment. After all, cementing ourselves to our environment is the only way we can “be” in the first place, and yet, for many of us, that structural obligation can already spell divergence and conflict.
Are there three things the community/society/politicians can do to help you address the root of the problem you are trying to solve?
- To understand how truly dependant we are on our relationships
- To understand what really causes relational contradictions
- To understand the ways we can combat contradictions constructively as opposed to destructively.
As living things, we all follow the directives of the psychosocial Structure that guides us. This means that, quite logically, we all seek positive confirmations while trying to avoid those that are not. When positive confirmations come our way, we react emotionally in positive ways. Our emotional behavior reflects happiness, satisfaction, and contentment…sometimes even elation or euphoria. When relational contradiction strikes, however, our emotions are negatively affected producing emotional behaviour that often makes us angry, disappointed, and downtrodden, sometimes depressed, or vindictive.
Contradictions create a need in us to correct, adjust, or eliminate their negative and destructive ways any way we can. Interestingly, the first and most utilized of these adjustments is contradiction itself. For example, the tried-and-true method of “fighting fire with fire.” In this case, and psychologically speaking, our goal becomes a need to destroy the destructive effects of contradiction. Here, we attempt to neutralize the contradiction we’ve received by contradicting the contradiction itself. (An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth). For example, when you feel insulted, you insult the insulter. If you are hit, you hit back. When you are accused of foul play, you search for foul play in your accuser. Whoever blames you, you blame them. This kind of structural behaviour is called neutralization. However, neutralizations are rarely effective. Most often, they perpetuate more conflict.
How do you define “Leadership”? Can you explain what you mean or give an example
In structural terms, “leaders” acquire their power from subconsciously promising to their followers a formula for successfully dealing with contradiction. The leader (without being aware of it) either promises to eliminate such contradictions themselves or teaches his or her followers how to reach the same goals, but this time, all by themselves, thereby eliminating the lack of control they are experiencing.
There is something quite rational about wanting to control the world around us. Indeed, this is how most of us get from one day to the next. Feeling that everything is under control is, for many, a good feeling. As it turns out, being in control is one of our primary survival tools, and for a very good reason. Life is hard, and the only assurance we have of successfully navigating its ups and downs is by doing our best to control the never-ending challenges and subsequent contradictions it presents. Feeling that we’re in control of our lives reassures our future, thereby affirming our ability to face life’s abundant contradictions.
We should all keep this in mind when we go about selecting our leaders. And it might not be a bad idea to look for the teachers as opposed to the promisers.
What are your “5 things I wish someone told me when I first started” and why? Please share a story or example for each.
I can only think of three. I call them the Structural Imperatives of Existence: Relationability, Continuance, and Confirmation. The Structure that guides us is based entirely on these three logical requirements. These are the three imperatives of life that all living things are bound to. They keep us alive and are entirely responsible for everything we think, feel, and do. I would have given anything to have known this from day one.
- Relationability, is our need to be in constant relationship with the world around us or, if you wish, our environment. Relate or die, as it were.
- Continuance, outlines our need to continue being who we are, as non-continuation of same would be contradictory or untenable. Either all living things continue being who they are, or they can’t exist at all.
- Confirmation, states that all relationships must receive environmental confirmation of the relational activity they’re involved in. If no conformational echo is forthcoming from a relationship, it cannot be said that a relationship has taken place.
We can see how our vitality as humans depends entirely on the relationships we establish. Only others can applaud our successes or boo our failures, lift us up or push us down, support us, or leave us to the wolves. Indeed, the role of each one of our individual environments (which includes that little voice in our heads we are constantly chatting with) is just as much about telling us who we are as it is about allowing all the genetic baggage we brought with us at birth to do its thing.
For example, it’s exclusively thanks to our environment that we’re able to know that we dislike spinach, enjoy music, or are stimulated by the color blue. In reality, without each one of our individual environmental sounding boards, we wouldn’t even know our names.
From a psychological perspective, whatever it may be that your environment tells you about yourself, it will have an emotionally charged impact on you. The psychologically relevant events you experience may provide you with joy or sadness, a sense of well-being or anxiety, elation or despair. In essence, whatever the relationship may be that you’re maintaining with your environment, it will always be psychologically meaningful.
Here’s something to keep in mind. Due to the way you’re structured (you are structured in exclusively logical ways), when contradiction rears its ugly head, you will naturally do your very best to resist that contradiction and let yourself and others know exactly what you’re doing. For example, you might need to get to work by 8:00 a.m., but there’s an accident on the freeway, and you find yourself immobilized, stuck in traffic. From a structural standpoint, the situation you’re relating to directly contradicts who you are (you are someone who wants and needs to arrive at work at 8:00 a.m., but now you can’t).
How does this circumstance affect your conduct? It will frustrate and anger you. Your heart will beat faster, and you’ll feel anxious. You may bang your fist on the steering wheel, honk your horn in protest, or let loose a barrage of four-letter words. No matter how you may display your resistance to what is taking place, the reactions you have will be a direct reflection of the logical contradiction you are dealing with — you and your world, that is. Take note that even though we’ll each act a little differently when confronted with contradiction, its illogical nature is experienced equally by all. We all shift into rejection mode.
But what happens when all goes right along with what you need and want? What if you’d found that the freeway was almost empty, and you could arrive at your destination ahead of time? As a result, you might think pleasant thoughts, happily whistle a tune, or turn on the radio and do a little sing-along. In other words, structurally speaking, negative feedback or echo affects us negatively, while positive echo affects us positively. Does this come as an earth-shaking surprise to you? I hope not! At least now you know why.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“The behaviour of all existing things is determined by the behaviour of existence itself.”
Life is governed by a clearly defined, existential Structure, without which no existing thing could “be.” This Structure, by its own imperative nature, oversees then guides everything we think, feel, and ultimately do. But an absolute application of its implications can be daunting!
Everything that’s alive behaves in very similar and specific ways. That’s because things that are alive follow the same norms of life. I call these norms a Structure, mostly because that’s what they are. As a matter of fact, you and I and everyone else are far more the same than we are different. This is because we are being guided through life in exactly the same way. Life’s structure dictates that everything that’s alive (that’s us and a whole bunch of other things) be relational, continuing, and confirming. Everything is structured this way. Surprisingly, so is your dog Spot, your coffeemaker, and your next vacation. They just don’t know it and don’t care.
Knowing how The Structure works comes in handy. It can help us navigate through life. It can even help us leave this life and do something else. When you’re alive, if you get what you want, you feel good. But if you don’t, you act out your disappointment. Living things have always done that. Things that aren’t alive haven’t, not at least, in the same way. This is what makes life “interesting.” More interesting still are all the details hidden within The Structure itself. They tell us much more still about who we are, where we’re going, and why we do the things we do.
Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would like to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we tag them. 🙂
Noam Chomsky — he is bright, sincere, and level-headed. Over all, the knowledge he has is outstandingly abundant and not only well-understood but expertly articulated.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
I do hope everyone will read the book: It’s Not Your Fault. It is meant to be an approachable guide to understanding human behavior, a starting off point for those who are looking for an overview of what motivates all human behavior.
And please also consult Structured Psychology’s website. It is full of vital information on Structured Psychology itself. Indeed, it is more of a catalogue of psychology’s cause-and-effect characteristics. You can also follow me on LinkedIn and Instagram. As we grow our social channels, my hope is to build an engaged and supportive community of those who are truly interested in knowing why we do the things we do.
(Links to Amazon, website landing page, Insta, FB, YouTube)
This was very meaningful, thank you so much. We wish you only continued success on your great work!
Social Impact Authors: How & Why Author Rogers Follansbee Is Helping To Change Our World was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.