Healing A Broken Mental Health System: Dr Tirrell De Gannes Of Thriving Center of Psychology On 5 Things That Can Be Done To Fix Our Broken Mental Health System
An Interview With Stephanie Greer
Allowing mental health professionals to accompany police officers in appropriate situations: These professionals would be trained for situations that are akin to de-escalation. This could be something like a domestic violence case or when working with an emotionally disturbed person, or EDP. These both pose great opportunities to have someone who can deal with emotions de-escalate the situation rather than increasing the risk of someone being hurt or imprisoned when they may not necessarily need to.
The current state of the mental health system is a conversation that echoes in the halls of policy-making, the corners of social advocacy, and within the private struggles of individuals and families. As we continue to witness an unprecedented need for robust mental health support, the shortcomings of the existing system become more glaring. It is within this backdrop that we seek the insight of those who are at the forefront of behavioral health. In this interview series, we are talking to behavioral health leaders, policymakers, mental health practitioners, advocates, and reformers to share their perspectives on healing our broken mental health system. As a part of this interview series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. Tirrell De Gannes, a licensed clinical psychologist based out of New York City.
Dr. De Gannes provides compassionate and evidence-based psychotherapy to adults and couples, helping them navigate challenges related to anxiety, obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), trauma, grief, substance use, and interpersonal difficulties. With extensive experience in diverse clinical settings — including schools, private practices, and community mental health centers — Dr. De Gannes is committed to meeting clients where they are in their stage of change. He values cultural awareness and strives to create a therapeutic environment that respects and supports the unique backgrounds of each individual.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series. Before we start, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your background and your childhood backstory?
Thank you for having me! I come from a Trinidadian descent and grew up in a single-mother household in Brooklyn, New York. Over time we ended up moving to Queens, but it was really just me, my mother, and occasionally my grandmother. My father wasn’t really in the picture, but I did have father figures in my life who guided me growing up.
Brooklyn in the 90s was an environment that really made me learn a lot. It exposed me to many good and different things, but also a lot of not so good things. That was what eventually pushed me into wanting to travel, learn different languages and cultures, and ultimately help the world around me. During this learning period, it was the practice of psychology where I finally understood that the way that I think and process had actual terms to describe it, and that brought me into the field where I am now a practicing doctor.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
My favorite life lesson quote is, “Don’t feel the need to prove you’re rich to people who are poorer than you.” This is not a comparison of money, but a comparison of self and worth. The idea that you need to compare yourself to others isn’t something that really resonates with me, because even when others think they’re better than you they objectively are not. Understand that there are people who will lead themselves to their own conclusions about yourself, and that is ultimately out of your control. It’s keeping your own sense of self stable that is important.
Let’s now shift to the main part of our discussion. It is often said that “the mental health system in America is broken”. What does that statement mean to you? From your perspective what is “broken” today?
To me this means that the current system isn’t set up to help people in an efficient way. Instead, mental health is seen as an excuse to justify the worst of human behavior and is often equated to criminal activities. It becomes a scapegoat for the things we just don’t want to address or the things we cannot address and has thus become a problem we consider to be unfixable.
It’s also important to note that, overall, the system is functioning in a way that doesn’t promote positive mental health and ends up punishing people for having mental health concerns. Competent clinicians are not often accessible, which results in inaccurate diagnoses. And, while diminished as of late, a stigma around mental health is still present in the zeitgeist of our time and system, which is not helped by inaccurate and ostracizing diagnoses.
What about any bright spots? Do you think there are any elements that we get right in today’s world that we wouldn’t want to reverse unintentionally?
This one is a little more convoluted for me. I think a bright spot is that therapy has become less taboo, but that’s not necessarily part of the system as a whole. What it has allowed for is easier access to mental health services through work. A lot of major companies have integrated policies that protect employees’ rights to the services, which I think deserves a genuine thank you.
I’ve been happy to see evidence of the lessened taboo with the show “The Good Doctor,” where they reverse the negative stigma around mental health. The main character, a clinician, has autism and his neurodivergence is seen as a positive and helpful aspect throughout the show.
In your opinion, what are the 5 most impactful things that could help heal the broken mental health system? These could be on any level including training, workforce, policy, culture, equity etc.
1. Allowing mental health professionals to accompany police officers in appropriate situations: These professionals would be trained for situations that are akin to de-escalation. This could be something like a domestic violence case or when working with an emotionally disturbed person, or EDP. These both pose great opportunities to have someone who can deal with emotions de-escalate the situation rather than increasing the risk of someone being hurt or imprisoned when they may not necessarily need to.
2. Increase access to and promote culturally competent therapy services: This covers the need for therapists as well as accessible facilities and teletherapy in general. Increasing the overall access is especially critical in rural areas where it’s harder to find any mental health services at all.
3. Utilization of appropriate mental health screenings for jobs: Employers can begin qualifying and providing built-in accommodations for employees that need them. This includes arrangements like mental health days. If an employee has severe anxiety, this should be built into their work package so that they’re able to use a mental health day without feeling like they are risking their job for not feeling mentally well.
4. Insurance providing full coverage of mental health concerns: Currently, most insurance only partially covers mental health services, or offers reimbursements rather than upfront coverage. To fully turn this around, however, I would love to see insurance companies pay clinicians a fairer wage, or at least something that is comparable to out of pocket costs. This will make it worth it for clinicians to accept insurances, make services more affordable and less of a financial sacrifice people need to make, and result in more overall accessibility.
5. Refraining from using false media portrayals of diagnoses: Exposing audiences to mental health diagnoses is not the issue, rather exposing them to false portrayals and keeping a negative stigma going. This includes news stories covering dangerous cases and individuals that report mental health disorders where there are none. Attributing dangerous behavior to false diagnoses builds upon the misunderstanding of common mental health struggles.
If all of the items on your list were magically implemented tomorrow what change might we see in the world? What are the signs (big and small) that would show us that the system is being healed?
Overtime, I think the ideal world people dream of would start to become a reality. People’s basic needs are more likely to be met. Violence and suicides would diminish, crimes would be committed less often, jails will be less filled. Communities would feel safer and more supportive, with the population as a whole having a better understanding of mental health struggles and how to attend to them. In the corporate world, productivity would flourish, and the economy would be booming once employees are working in spaces that allow them to address mental health concerns.
What is a project you or others are working on today that gives you hope? How can our readers learn more about this work?
With my primary practice, Thriving Center of Psychology, we’re doing a lot of research to see what is afflicting the general population. Each study is different, some focusing on how specific phenomena come along and some looking at the effects of current events, but each creates a resource people can use to understand why they may be feeling a certain way. It’s an excellent opportunity to provide information for the public to use as a reference, and I compile all of this data on my Instagram, @ThatBlackDoctor.
I also work with the director of Shiloh Consulting to do another study into race-based trauma, and how it is differentiated from a post-traumatic stress disorder. This is being done in a particularly ostracized community of individuals that are coming from incarceration. With the results, we’re hoping it will guide how we cater future therapy, diagnoses, and treatment. This has been something that’s really interesting and exciting for me; seeing how race-based trauma has affected their lives is something that I find to be really important.
How do you see technology shaping the future of mental health care and its accessibility?
Technology is being used to make mental health care more accessible overall, and easier to engage with. But in a way that somewhat cheapens the overall experience of therapy in person. There’s a couple of levels at which I look at this. The first being the introduction of telehealth services due to the pandemic, which again was both an asset and to some extent, a detriment. While it allows you to service people in the comfort of their own homes, you lose the in-person effect of reading body language. There is also a concern with privacy now, when the patient can’t always guarantee absolute solitude.
On the second level, I look at the systems that now exist to promote mobile therapy that’s accessed on your phone, with the ease of switching providers at any time. On the surface this may seem great. However, these platforms often underpay and overwork therapists while offering a matching system that is not truly personalized. This ultimately reduces the quality of care and diminishes the value of therapeutic connection.
The third level that concerns me with technology and therapy melding, is the rise of AI therapists. We have already seen people turn to AI for things like relationship advice, and I worry that it’s only a matter of time before there are specialized AI therapists that are uncertified, untrained, and don’t provide factual, helpful guidance.
In your view, how do social factors like poverty, education, and culture affect mental health care and its effectiveness?
I could go on about this for a while, but social factors are a main component in the effectiveness of mental health care. Most of the time, low-income individuals cannot and do not have access to therapy due to the financial cost. This doesn’t even consider the value of time; putting aside a part of your day for a therapy session is a completely different sacrifice for a financially stable patient than a low-income one. They are now losing that 45 minutes to an hour of time where they could be getting paid to help feel secure. So, it’s a lot harder for people with low income to be able to even find themselves in a position to get access to therapy and therapeutic services.
Uneducated people, by research, are less likely to seek help. This is in part because they don’t understand or value mental health and its treatment. Even though they are equally affected, they don’t see the value of getting treatment and therefore are less likely to receive it, which leads to a whole host of problems.
Culturally, it’s very similar. Of course, this is dependent on the culture, but overall, different cultures tend to have their own stigmas around mental health and mental health concerns. There is often misunderstanding around the topic, and they do not see it as a representation of something greater. A lot of cultures also emphasize routine and structure, which tends to dominate over introducing new coping techniques like therapy.
The right therapist can work within the bounds of any of these factors. Hopefully with the right compensation and access, they can also be in the appropriate setting so that it’s less of a barrier to get to those people.
In light of the growing mental health crisis among young people, what innovative approaches or interventions have proven most successful for children and adolescents?
Despite some reservations, I think the one thing that’s proven really successful for today’s young people is just having access to the internet. Therapy has been made into a continuous trend almost, making it more accepted and popular, and I think that’s the best way to continue, given how influential social media is.
Influencing people to go to the therapist, and then having them share their unique experiences helps destigmatize going to therapy. It shows that learning about themselves and their experiences is a positive thing that other people can experience as well. All of this can come just from using social media, if done in a correct, non-toxic way.
We are very blessed that some very prominent names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them.
There are so many people that come to mind. Of course, there are politicians that I would like to speak with about implementing change in the world, or grand celebrities like Taylor Swift and Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson that could influence the world to seek mental health. There are also a lot of black male celebrities who have fallen from grace for some negative public moments; people like Will Smith, Kanye West, and Jonathan Majors that I’d like to sit with and help guide them through these moments. And there are local celebrities like Elvis Duran that I’d love to just meet and thank for his influence.
If I could only pick one though, it would be Kevin Hart. I’ve read his book and followed his career for most of my life and have seen him come a long way and become wildly successful despite the occasional controversy. However, the real reason I want to meet with him is not because he is famous, but because I get the sense that there’s a profound sadness in him that most people can’t see. It’s reminiscent of Robin Williams for me. I imagine that he has the weight of the world on his shoulders and that his drive to succeed isn’t just hard work but a protective emotional factor. I’d love to explore that with him. If it’s true, it could mean the world to him, and to me, to get to that point. If it isn’t true, then I at least get the relief of knowing so.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
You can find me on Instagram @ThatBlackDoctor, or learn more about my experience at https://thrivingcenterofpsych.com/therapists/tirrell-de-gannes-psyd/.
Thank you for your time and thoughtful answers. I know many people will gain so much from hearing this.
About The Interviewer: Stephanie Greer, PhD is the Co-founder and CEO of Akin Mental Health — a company dedicated to guiding families on their journey supporting a loved one with mental health challenges like bipolar disorder, schizophrenia and severe depression. Stephanie is passionate about this topic from her own personal experience growing up with a mother who struggled with bipolar 1 disorder and found a path forward to overcome the obstacles and live well. Stephanie’s professional experience includes a doctorate in neuroscience as well as design research roles at Hopelab and Apple. Stephanie brings this personal passion together with her world-class science and technology background to support families across the US in their personal journeys supporting loved ones with mental illness. To learn more about Akin Mental Health and join our community, visit us at akinmh.com.
Healing A Broken Mental Health System: Dr Tirrell De Gannes Of Thriving Center of Psychology On 5… was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.