Putting The United Back Into The United States: Ryan Manion of the ‘Travis Manion Foundation’ On The 5 Things That Each Of Us Can Do To Help Unite Our Polarized Society

Unplug to reconnect: Social media has become the main outlet and focal point for so many people, yet it’s anything but social. For millions of Americans, their community has been taken away from them and replaced with something inherently isolating, keeping them tethered to a screen. Social media and partisan media have a vested interest in maintaining a divide. Add to that the onslaught of misinformation and algorithms designed to feed us a one-sided narrative, and we find a landscape designed to trigger discourse and reaction. This has led us to becoming more accustomed to speaking at each other, rather than with one another. It’s the responsibility of each of us to pick our heads up from the screen, and talk to our neighbors and community that surround us. And not through online forums…I’m talking about real world interactions. These relationships are critical to our own mental health and well-being, as well as taking a step towards healing as a collective nation.

As part of our series about 5 Things That Each Of Us Can Do To Help Unite Our Polarized Society, I had the pleasure of interviewing Ryan Manion of Travis Manion Foundation.

Ryan Manion has dedicated her life to supporting our nation’s military, veterans, and families of fallen heroes. She is inspired by the character, leadership, and sacrifice of her brother 1st Lt Travis Manion, USMC, who made the ultimate sacrifice in the Al Anbar province of Iraq while drawing fire away from his wounded comrades on April 29th, 2007.

Serving as the President of Travis Manion Foundation since 2012, Ryan leads a national movement focused on assisting veterans and families of the fallen to take the next step in their personal journeys, and inspiring the next generation of leaders. Ryan is the co-author of The Knock at the Door, in which she shares her personal story of grief, and how she moved forward to be the best version of herself. She is also the host of The Resilient Life podcast, where her guests discuss their experiences with resilience and how they have turned their challenges into opportunities of growth.

As a highly regarded advocate for the military community, Ryan has been invited to address national audiences on numerous occasions — including Good Morning America, CBS this Morning, CNN, The Today Show, The View, Fox News and many more.

Carrying on the legacy of her brother Travis, Ryan continues to lead a life of service to others. This was most notably recognized in 2015 when she was selected to receive the President’s Lifetime Achievement Award for Volunteer Service. Ryan served on the Advisory Committee at Arlington National Cemetery and remains committed to their mission. As a leader in the Veteran Non-Profit sector, Ryan serves on the Advisory Boards of the Global War on Terror Memorial Foundation and With Honor.

Ryan began with Travis Manion Foundation as a board member, but as national recognition increased, her calling was to become even more involved. Ryan left a position in government to dedicate herself full-time to TMF. She would go on to eventually follow in the footsteps of her late mother who started the Foundation, where Ryan remains to this day as the leader of the “If Not Me, Then Who…” movement.

Ryan resides in Doylestown, PA with her husband and three children, Maggie Rose, Honor and Travis Brendan. Ryan continues to serve her local community by serving as a Township Supervisor since elected in 2011. While responsibilities of this position are focused on deciding issues of public safety, growth management, environment, etc., Ryan most appreciates the personal connection with those within the community she is able to directly serve.

Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Before we dive into the main focus of our interview, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood backstory?

I grew up in a military family with a Marine Corps father, a strong mother and a competitive brother who was one year younger than me. We moved a few times which was always tough to leave friends but I liked getting to experience different parts of the country. Because of having to constantly make new friends, my one constant was my brother so he and I were best friends. I played every sport growing up including lacrosse all the way through college. We spent as much time as we could with our extended family and I would describe us as a very close family.

What or who inspired you to pursue your career? We’d love to hear the story.

My brother, 1stLt Travis Manion, USMC, is my inspiration. On April 29, 2007, he was killed by an enemy sniper fire while rescuing his injured teammates after they were ambushed. My brother was a great leader that truly lived to serve others. Before leaving for his final deployment, he responded “If Not Me, Then Who…” when asked why he had to go back. These five words have become my ethos and my daily reminder to be a person for others.

What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now? How do you think that might help people?

After losing my brother, I was asked to speak at his high school. Instead of speaking solely about him for an hour, I used him as one example of a person of character among other examples. Following that talk, I began going around to high schools throughout Philadelphia delivering this presentation which I named “Character Does Matter”. In the 10 years that followed, we’ve trained 2,000 veterans and family members of fallen heroes throughout the country to deliver this presentation as well as a more in-depth course on character and leadership impacting almost 400,000 young adults. This past summer, I also launched a podcast called The Resilient Life, where I have the honor of having authentic conversations with people who have dealt with real life struggle — death, illness, career and financial hardship — and come out stronger on the other side.

None of us can achieve success without some help along the way. Was there a particular person who you feel gave you the most help or encouragement to be who you are today? Can you share a story about that?

My mom was a fiercely strong woman. Following the loss of her only son, she started Travis Manion Foundation to support veterans and other families of the fallen. She was determined to use her grief to do something good and ensure that Travis’ mission continued. And you would have thought starting a small family foundation in the suburbs of Philadelphia would have been enough but my mother was never satisfied. She had a dream of Travis Manion Foundation becoming one of the top national non-profit organizations serving veterans and families of the fallen. After my mom was diagnosed with cancer and passed away in 2012, I took over her vision and today the Travis Manion Foundation has over 130,000 members across the country continuing my brother and my mom’s legacy of service.

Can you share the funniest or most interesting mistake that occurred to you in the course of your career? What lesson or take away did you learn from that?

A few years ago, we were approached by someone with a very impressive resume that told us how he helped other non-profits connect with some of the most well-known philanthropists that would take our organization to the next level. We worked with him for about a year and were amazed by his rolodex of who’s who in America’s corporate leaders. After a couple of questionable interactions, we decided to do a little research and discovered that he was not who he claimed to be. Fortunately for us, we broke ties before his plot unfolded and no one was hurt. But my lesson through that experience was that if something is too good to be true, it probably is. Success is the result of hard work and there are no shortcuts.

Is there a particular book that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?

I am a big fan of the book Extreme Ownership, by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin. This book is all about personal accountability, which is something that is too many of us overlook. Nothing will be handed to you in this life.

Can you share your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Why does that resonate with you so much? Do you have a story about how that was relevant in your life or your work?

I’d have to go back to my brother’s five words “If Not Me, Then Who…” that he spoke before his final deployment. At the time, my husband had asked him why he would have to go back to Iraq for a second deployment, and that was Travis’s response. Those words really drive my decisions in life because they remind me that if I want to see change in myself, my community, or the world, I need to be the one to step forward and serve. While I more than realize the significance of these 5 words today, I was a different person before my brother was killed. My biggest regret is that it was only after Travis was killed that I became the woman I wanted to be.

How do you define “Leadership”? Can you explain what you mean or give an example?

Leadership is inspiring others to accomplish the mission. A good leader focuses on developing herself and her team in order to have the biggest impact serving others. The best example of leadership was my brother. He worked hard his entire life developing himself to be the best leader of Marines and he was prepared on his final day when his team needed him the most. He ensured that every other member of his team survived.

Ok, thank you for all that. Now let’s move to the main focus of our interview. The polarization in our country has become so extreme that families have been torn apart. Erstwhile close friends have not spoken to each other because of strong partisan differences. This is likely a huge topic, but briefly, can you share your view on how this evolved to the boiling point that it’s at now?

I think that people have lost important connections and the ability to effectively communicate as our lives have become increasingly more digital over the past couple of decades. While technology has improved many things and made us more efficient in many ways, it’s eliminated many of the old ways that we used to connect and communicate. Text messages and social media have a use but they don’t replace in-person experiences which help to build trust and improve relationships. Add to that a divisive media, a polarizing presidential election and a global pandemic, and it’s like you’ve added gasoline to the fire which is the current situation where we find ourselves.

I have no pretensions about bridging the divide between politicians, or between partisan media outlets. But I’d love to discuss the divide that is occurring between families, co workers, and friends. Do you feel comfortable sharing a story from your experience about how family or friends have become a bit alienated because of the partisan atmosphere?

One of the big surprises last year was how people’s reaction to the pandemic became political. Each of us is in a different situation and have different risk tolerances which should dictate our reaction; however, instead it became about political ideology and which news source you watch. For my family, we’ve tried to stay in the middle of the risk spectrum. My children go to school in-person, I continue to go into an office or meet with people for work, and my family traveled over the holiday. We wear masks and follow social distancing and other CDC guidelines. However, I have other extended family members that refuse to leave their house and therefore get left out. If someone is vulnerable due to a health condition, I understand. But, unfortunately, in most cases it’s due to the partisan media, misinformation and politics.

In your opinion, what can be done to bridge the divide that has occurred in families? Can you please share a story or example?

I think divides that have occurred in families will be bridged over time as we start to spend more time together, as the vaccine rolls out, and as our country moves forward from the pandemic. Genuine relationships, along with having a sense of purpose, are the most important factors that determine well-being. With the lack of social interaction and increase in subsequent mental health problems, small problems have become big problems. We need to get back our in-person connections in order to bridge the divides that have become exasperated over the past year.

How about the workplace, what can be done to bridge the partisan divide that has fractured relationships there? Can you please share a story or example?

First, professionals should not feel the need to share every thought over social media. At Travis Manion Foundation, one of our organizational values is “Out of many, One” which speaks to respecting others and leveraging our differences to make us better. But publicly stating every thought or opinion over social media is not productive and is often divisive. I encourage our team to sit down in-person and truly listen to each other if they want to have a discussion about a difficult topic. But trying to communicate complex issues in 140 characters will lead to fractured relationships. While working from home has been necessary at certain times this past year, we need to get back to safely working together in-person collaboratively to improve relationships and build trust.

I think one of the causes of our divide comes from the fact that many of us see a political affiliation as the primary way to self identify. But of course there are many other ways to self identify. What do you think can be done to address this?

At Travis Manion Foundation, we’ve invested hours of training into topics of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion which help people understand the different ways that we identify ourselves and see each other. I think this type of training should become commonplace in order to overcome some of the political and social divides that we are experiencing. People will find that we have much more in common than may appear at first glance. And what unites us is so much stronger than what divides us.

Much ink has been spilled about how social media companies and partisan media companies continue to make money off creating a split in our society. Sadly the cat is out of the bag and at least in the near term there is no turning back. Social media and partisan media have a vested interest in maintaining the divide, but as individuals none of us benefit by continuing this conflict. What can we do moving forward to not let social media divide us?

Social media is a great tool, but too many have begun to use social media to create a community, where in reality it is a forum. Nothing will take the place of real community through genuine interaction. It is not a great way to try to communicate complex topics. I think people need to rethink how they use social media and which topics deserve more intimate communication channels such as face-to-face. These relationships are critical to our own mental health and well-being, as well as taking a step towards healing as a collective nation.

What can we do moving forward to not let partisan media pundits divide us?

In my house, we purposely try to get multiple perspectives on an issue by watching or reading about it on different networks or outlets. You can’t rely on any single source to get the full story. While the idea of discussing issues like race or politics has become uncomfortable, especially among family members, the trick is to not go into a conversation trying to win or change their mind. Instead we need to listen to all sides before coming to an informed conclusion.

Sadly we have reached a fevered pitch where it seems that the greatest existential catastrophe that can happen to our country is that “the other side” seizes power. We tend to lose sight of the fact that as a society and as a planet we face more immediate dangers. What can we do to lower the ante a bit and not make every small election cycle a battle for the “very existence of our country”?

I think it starts by educating ourselves on the systems that our country has in place to protect us from ourselves. Our government was created with checks and balances that purposely make it difficult for any single person to achieve their agenda without the support of elected officials that represent a diverse population. Within all government agencies, we have career professionals dedicated to the American people without regard to politics. We should have faith in our great country and understand that the only threat to our existence is our own divisiveness.

Ok wonderful. Here is the main question of our interview. Can you please share your “5 Steps That Each Of Us Can Take To Proactively Help Heal Our Country”. Kindly share a story or example for each.

1. Unplug to reconnect: Social media has become the main outlet and focal point for so many people, yet it’s anything but social. For millions of Americans, their community has been taken away from them and replaced with something inherently isolating, keeping them tethered to a screen. Social media and partisan media have a vested interest in maintaining a divide. Add to that the onslaught of misinformation and algorithms designed to feed us a one-sided narrative, and we find a landscape designed to trigger discourse and reaction. This has led us to becoming more accustomed to speaking at each other, rather than with one another. It’s the responsibility of each of us to pick our heads up from the screen, and talk to our neighbors and community that surround us. And not through online forums…I’m talking about real world interactions. These relationships are critical to our own mental health and well-being, as well as taking a step towards healing as a collective nation.
2. Commit to your community: At Travis Manion Foundation, we’re actively building a community that is made up of more than 130,000 veterans, families of the fallen, and inspired civilians who all have something in common — they all exemplify character by being part of something bigger than themselves. These individuals come from a wide range of socioeconomic backgrounds, races, religions, and cultures — every sense of the word diversity, and we’ve pulled them together to accomplish a common mission of BEING the good in our own communities. Everything that we do, whether its volunteering at a soup kitchen, cleaning up a neighborhood park, organizing a food drive, or even just holding the door for someone, are actions we take to honor the service and sacrifice of our fallen military members. They are the inspirational backdrop to everything we do. By carrying on their legacies of service and character in our own communities, we’re not just doing good, but we’re also setting an example for our next generation of leaders.
3. Have constructive conversations with those who think differently: Many of us are less practiced with having conversations with those who have different beliefs than us which has made us resistant to seeing other perspectives. While the idea of discussing issues like race or politics has become uncomfortable, especially among family members, the trick is to not go into a conversation trying to win or change their mind. Instead we need to listen to all sides before coming to an informed conclusion. Even if there continues to be a difference of opinion, when we have conversations with those who may have different beliefs, we can’t go into it assuming that person is out to get us. Right now there is a real fear that the other side is strictly out to slander the opposition. We’ve gotten away from the idea that we’re all Americans looking to solve a problem, and instead see it that anyone with a different mindset is out to get us. Yes, there are actors on both sides of the divide who are maliciously leaning into this narrative, and that makes it even more important that we look to our neighbors, friends, and family members who we’ve built trusting relationships with already, to bridge that divide. At the end of the day, everyone is striving for a better life for ourselves and our family, security, and equal opportunity, which is the common ground where we can start these conversations.
4. Don’t stand on the sidelines: We’re often looking to a small portion of the population, being our politicians and local leaders, to fix the problems that afflict our country. Clearly that’s not working. We need to have real life conversations at home and with our friends first, because that is where we have the strongest connections. We cannot allow relationships to be torn apart simply over political disagreements. Just because someone supports a different political candidate, it doesn’t make them your enemy. We will all have varying beliefs about an infinite amount of topics, but to allow political affiliation to fracture our bonds with those we care for can only lead us down a dangerous and lonely path. Embrace all that life has to offer beyond politics, and even if someone has different beliefs, it’s vital that we maintain those connections. But to do that, it’s up to each of us to take the first step
5. Don’t wait to change: Through all these ideas of how we can all help unite our country, I urge you to take action today. Don’t put off finding the best version of yourself. I lost my best friend and only brother, Marine 1st Lieutenant Travis Manion on April 29th, 2007, when he was killed by an enemy sniper in Iraq while pulling his wounded teammates to safety. In the years following Travis’ death, I channeled my grief through countless actions I had never imagined I could do, like running a marathon, building homes in underserved communities, and now leading one of the nation’s leading veteran nonprofits, which bears his name. There are so many things I wish Travis and I could have done together, because I am definitely not the same woman he knew when he was alive. I’m better. I’m stronger. I’m more purpose driven. But I wish I didn’t wait for him to disappear before I became the woman I wanted to be. Every day I set out to be a positive force, because that’s what Travis and all our fallen military members sacrificed their lives doing. So to carry on their legacies, I challenge you to be the change today that takes another step towards uniting this country which they loved enough to give their lives for.

Simply put, is there anything else we can do to ‘just be nicer to each other’?

Start with one action. Say a kind word to someone or perform an act of kindness. If you live in the northeast (or Texas), go shovel your elderly neighbor’s driveway. Hold the door open for a stranger. Smile and greet people as you walk by. Be big in the small things and they will add up to big change.

We are going through a rough period now. Are you optimistic that this issue can eventually be resolved? Can you explain?

I’m an eternal optimist. Of course this issue can be resolved but it relies on each of us being the change that we seek. Don’t wait for others to do it for us. Political leaders won’t fix our problems. Before my brother left for his final deployment to Iraq, he stated “If Not, Me Then Who…” when asked why he had to return for a dangerous deployment. Each of us has the opportunity to have an “If Not Me, Then Who…” moment every day. If we each adopt this ethos, we will be fine.

If you could tell young people one thing about why they should consider making a positive impact on our society, like you, what would you tell them?

When I speak with young adults, I share the stories of this generation of fallen heroes who stepped up when our country needed them and bravely sacrificed their lives for us. Now it’s our turn to pay it forward and serve others.

Is there a person in the world, or in the US, with whom you would like to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we tag them. :-)

I would love to have a private lunch with Reese Witherspoon. She is such an incredible role model for young females. Many may see her as just an actress, where in reality she has changed the landscape for what it means to be a female in business. From her book club to her media company, she elevates stories of women across the globe. I also love how in the face of all the divide in our country she has managed to maintain a balance of sharing her thoughts and opinions, but not alienating others that may think differently than her.

How can our readers follow you online?

Travis Manion Foundation’s social media handles are @travismanionfoundation on Instagram and Facebook, and @TMFoundation on Twitter. You can also find more information on our website, www.travismanion.org. My personal social media handles are @rmanion on Instagram and Twitter and @rmanionTMF on Facebook. My website is ryanmanion.com, and I also host a podcast called “The Resilient Life” that can be found on all streaming platforms.

This was very meaningful, and thank you so much for the time you spent on this interview. We wish you only continued success on your great work!

Putting The United Back Into The United States: Ryan Manion of the ‘Travis Manion Foundation’ On… was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.

Putting The United Back Into The United States: Author Karen Tibbals On The 5 Things That Each Of Us Can Do To Help Unite Our Polarized Society

Prepare: If you are stressed, go into an encounter by doing whatever you can to de-stress. Get enough sleep, eat nutritious foods, meditate, or pray or whatever you do to help calm down. And prepare by learning what you can about the person you are disagreeing with. Don’t read the news obsessively, it will make you more stressed. Do read about what makes people different, read about potential solutions. You’ll need that information later.

As part of our series about 5 Things That Each Of Us Can Do To Help Unite Our Polarized Society, I had the pleasure of interviewing Karen Tibbals.

Karen is an author and public speaker whose mission is to help other people bridge the cultural and political divide. She developed an expertise is human behavior during her long-time career in marketing. Karen left that career to go to seminary, intending to start an organization to support businesspeople in her faith community. After she discovered that wasn’t a good fit for her, she decided to help people in a different way — by taking her understanding of human motivation to a broader audience. Her most recent book, Persuade, Don’t Preach: Restoring Civility Across the Political Divide, teaches people how to apply the latest social science research in their own lives so that they can understand each other better and talk to the other side more productively. She is also writing a newsletter which accesses information from a variety of experts on how we can mend our fractured relationships.

Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Before we dive into the main focus of our interview, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood backstory?

I was a shy, self-conscious child, the oldest of three girls. My dad loved all kids but especially loved his kids and encouraged us to stretch. He pushed me to talk to people even though I was shy. I remember him making me get out of the car and ask for directions, even though I resisted it strongly. Even though he was born early in the 20th century, he still supported the idea that women could do great things. My youngest sister and I were the first women in our extended family to go to college and we both went on to masters’ degree level programs, because of his encouragement.

What or who inspired you to pursue your career? We’d love to hear the story.

Well, I have had several careers. My shift to a career in the pharmaceutical industry was inspired by the thought that I could really help people. I interviewed for a job that supported a cancer product and I had visions of saving people’s lives. It turns out even though I got a job with the company, I didn’t work on a cancer product until a long time later. But I like to feel that I have had a positive impact on society through the work that I did.

What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now? How do you think that might help people?

I am working on a newsletter that summarizes what various experts say about how to help people come together. I draw from experts in various different fields, not just psychiatry and psychology, but also hostage negotiators, historians, political scientists, religious leaders, conflict resolution specialists, anthropologists and so on. I call the newsletter Mending Fractured Relationships.

None of us can achieve success without some help along the way. Was there a particular person who you feel gave you the most help or encouragement to be who you are today? Can you share a story about that?

I’ve had a number of really good bosses in my career who encouraged me in many ways. People don’t realize that many people in corporate America are kind caring people who do a lot to help develop employees’ skills. But a more recent story that most comes to mind is when I was in seminary, my thesis advisor called me a “philosopher”. I never realized that was what I was doing, but that is what I do. I work hard to understand why things happen and then explain them to people.

Can you share the funniest or most interesting mistake that occurred to you in the course of your career? What lesson or take away did you learn from that?

In one of my assignments in corporate America, I was working with a colleague who consistently behaved badly towards a person from another company. It started to create problems for the alliance between the two companies. I knew I needed to do something, but, because I don’t like confrontation, I delayed for a long time. I spent a lot of time asking people’s advice. I wanted someone else to solve the problem for me. I asked both my boss and her boss to talk to the person who had created the problem, but they all told me I had to do it myself. Finally, I made an appointment with her, told her what I had observed and the problems it was causing. It was like magic! She said she didn’t realize the problem and said she would apologize! The lessons I learned were don’t put off confronting conflict, it doesn’t get any easier, and don’t expect others to solve your problems for you. This is a crucial lesson because the problems in our society aren’t going to go away if we don’t confront them. We each need to take a part, one conversation at a time.

Is there a particular book that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?

Steven Pinker’s The Better Angels of Our Nature had a significant impact on me. I loved how he summarized what has happened to violence over the centuries and identified the factors that contributed to that. That method matches the way I use evidence to come to conclusions. I also loved that it was contrary to common wisdom and that it was based on data, not just opinion. Moreover, it was there I discovered Moral Foundations Theory, which set me on the path that I am on.

Can you share your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Why does that resonate with you so much? Do you have a story about how that was relevant in your life or your work?

A quote that I use often is: “Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all,” by Helen Keller. I have a tendency to hide and be very private. Becoming public feels risky to me because I am afraid of conflict and I know people are going to disagree with me. This quote is one of the tools I used to get over the fears, to remind myself that unless I take the risk I won’t be able to achieve my goal. My life has certainly gotten a lot more interesting since I started on this path.

How do you define “Leadership”? Can you explain what you mean or give an example?

A leader does and says what is right for his organization and for his followers, not what is right for him. I’ve known several leaders who have recommended actions that stripped themselves of power or influence because they believed it was the right thing to do. But leaders also need to pay attention to the needs of their followers. The really difficult situations where true leadership is needed are when there is a conflict between the organization’s needs and the followers’ needs. In that case, leaders need to do what they can for all parties. However, if they can’t do what is best for their followers, at the very least, the leader needs to take the followers’ needs into account and talk to them in a way that takes into account their concerns and their values.

Ok, thank you for all that. Now let’s move to the main focus of our interview. The polarization in our country has become so extreme that families have been torn apart. Erstwhile close friends have not spoken to each other because of strong partisan differences. This is likely a huge topic, but briefly, can you share your view on how this evolved to the boiling point that it’s at now?

I would say that there are two underlying societal factors that have contributed to it, which created a powder keg just waiting burn. The powder key was lit by a match from Donald Trump.

The two social factors creating this powder keg are social sorting and social media. By social sorting, I mean that people used to routinely encounter people who weren’t like them. The stereotypes of the boss marrying the secretary and the boss living next to the factory in the small town and sending their kids to the town school were not wrong. Back then people got to know people who weren’t like themselves and had to get along with them. But now, the factories have been bought up by major corporations and the big boss is no longer the owner, and the headquarters is based in a big city. People are more likely to marry people they went to college with, not the secretary. People are freer to move to live near people just like themselves now. And people who don’t want to move, don’t. One key indicator of how liberal or conservative a person is how far they live from where they were born. Those who live within 50 miles of their birth are more likely to be conservative. Conversely, the cities have become very liberal, as liberals move there to be with people like themselves.

The second factor, social media, has also made it so that we don’t need to talk to our neighbors, we can talk to people just like us online, so we are less likely to encounter someone who has attitudes that are different than ours.

This situation was ready for a match, like one provided by President Trump, to ignite it and make it explode. Because we already had the factors of social sorting and social media, we had lost the skills of how to get along with others who weren’t like us and were more likely to buy into what he said. When Trump called people with different ideas the enemy, that triggered the explosion.

I have no pretensions about bridging the divide between politicians, or between partisan media outlets. But I’d love to discuss the divide that is occurring between families, co workers, and friends. Do you feel comfortable sharing a story from your experience about how family or friends have become a bit alienated because of the partisan atmosphere?

Our homeowner’s association has had a long-standing policy of restricting signs including political signs. One homeowner was so enthusiastically partisan that he put up a banner promoting his candidate that violated those rules. This promoted a long-drawn-out discussion at our association meeting, where it was finally decided to pay a lawyer to revise the by-laws to loosen the rules to allow political signs but put limits on it. Luckily, the person complied. People were fed up at the end.

In your opinion, what can be done to bridge the divide that has occurred in families? Can you please share a story or example?

On my last ever visit to my elderly aunt, I called her rude, and walked out. She had gone into a rant against immigrants, even though her immigrant caregiver was sitting in the same room with us. I never spoke to her again. I didn’t call her and she didn’t call me. She died eighteen months later. I wish I had had the tools in my book, because then I would have been able to talk to her in a such a way that she might have been able to listen to me differently. Instead of focusing on what was offensive to me, I wish I had recognized that underneath her rant was a love of her country. If I had seen that I could have named it and agreed with it. After all, I love our country too. Then, once we agreed, I could have used the tool of reframing to communicate some of my views but use her values to make it easier for her to agree with. For example, I could have asked her if immigrants like her caregiver who work hard should be allowed to come into our country. I think she probably would have agreed with that. But even if she didn’t, I wouldn’t have stormed out and would have been able to continue the conversation. By being in relationship with each other, we have an opportunity to change each other. When we cut off contact, we lose that opportunity.

How about the workplace, what can be done to bridge the partisan divide that has fractured relationships there? Can you please share a story or example?

My sister got into a heated discussion with an employee of hers who had a different political view. They had had a good relationship before that. My sister “solved” it by setting a boundary that their conversations would only be about old movies in the future. She can do that, she’s the boss. But what I suggested when I wrote about this situation in my newsletter is to use an episode like this as an opportunity to start a conversation about media literacy. Especially if the person is a knowledge worker, employees need to know how to evaluate the information they take in, and media is just one source. Then you can apply my five-step model of preparation, asking questions, listening, affirming and reframing that I talk about in my newsletter, by making the questions about media literacy.

I think one of the causes of our divide comes from the fact that many of us see a political affiliation as the primary way to self identify. But of course there are many other ways to self identify. What do you think can be done to address this? We need to get to know other people so we can recognize that people are multifaceted and not one-dimensional. Look for the other parts in people’s lives especially people you disagree with. I have had political discussions with one particular neighbor, but I also know her husband has cancer, she has a disabled daughter, and she has worked with me on a project. I see how afraid she is of change. She is real person. The more you can get to know a variety of people in real life, the less we will be tempted to see them as one-dimensional.

Much ink has been spilled about how social media companies and partisan media companies continue to make money off creating a split in our society. Sadly the cat is out of the bag and at least in the near term there is no turning back. Social media and partisan media have a vested interest in maintaining the divide, but as individuals none of us benefit by continuing this conflict. What can we do moving forward to not let social media divide us? We need to rebuild our relationships in real life so that social media doesn’t dominate what we know about people. We need to stop seeing the “other side” as the enemy. They are all Americans. Most of them are warm, caring people who contribute to world. Look for the good in everyone. Participate in community efforts to make the neighborhood or town or city you live in a better place. Get to know your neighbors and contribute yourself.

What can we do moving forward to not let partisan media pundits divide us?

Volunteer in your community to help make your little piece of the world a better place. Use this as an opportunity to get to know a variety of people, especially ones you might disagree with. Talk to them about their lives and try to understand what events shaped them.

Sadly we have reached a fevered pitch where it seems that the greatest existential catastrophe that can happen to our country is that “the other side” seizes power. We tend to lose sight of the fact that as a society and as a planet we face more immediate dangers. What can we do to lower the ante a bit and not make every small election cycle a battle for the “very existence of our country”?

I found a suggestion for healing our nation that came from two different sources, anthropologist Joseph Henrich, and historian/author Anne Applebaum. They both have separately identified working towards a common objective is a way to bind a society together after conflict. Henrich has cited examples of how it worked in indigenous societies and Anne Applebaum has identified it as recommended by peace advocates and seen in her experience in Eastern Europe. I’ve also seen the effect of that in my personal life. I know the discussion I got into with a neighbor right after the election was less heated because I had already worked with her on a joint project. We already had had a shared experience. Henrich further suggests that a ritual with shared movements and music is particularly powerful. The choreographed dance of the witches that a few of my neighbors did for Halloween 2019 probably helped bind them together.

Ok wonderful. Here is the main question of our interview. Can you please share your “5 Steps That Each Of Us Can Take To Proactively Help Heal Our Country”. Kindly share a story or example for each.

1. Prepare: If you are stressed, go into an encounter by doing whatever you can to de-stress. Get enough sleep, eat nutritious foods, meditate, or pray or whatever you do to help calm down. And prepare by learning what you can about the person you are disagreeing with. Don’t read the news obsessively, it will make you more stressed. Do read about what makes people different, read about potential solutions. You’ll need that information later.
2. Ask questions: Too often, we make assumptions about what is driving the other side. But often those assumptions aren’t true. Or if they contain a grain of truth, they are exaggerated. After all, the news focuses on the extreme examples, because most people aren’t news. The saying about assuming — that it makes an “ass” out of you and me — has some truth to it. When you ask the right kind of questions, you are opening up the conversations on a very different note. There are many types of questions you can ask that can help, but an all-purpose good opening question is: “I really want to understand what you think. Can you explain your ideas to me?”
3. Listen: It doesn’t help to ask questions if you don’t listen. Too often we aren’t actually listening, but instead preparing our arguments. Listening is hard. It isn’t about a technique; it is about being truly willing to slow down. Hemingway had it right when he said: “When people talk, listen completely.” The retired British hostage negotiator, Richard Mullender, says that a good listener needs to look for facts, emotions, and values. But unless you have done your preparation, you may not recognize the values.
4. Affirm: We are so used to trying to poke holes in people’s arguments and defending our own, that it is hard for us to step back and figure what we agree with people on. But if you can affirm at least something about what the person said, you will change the conversation. The other person will relax and they become more able to hear what you have to say. But more than that, you might also change yourself.
5. Reframe: Here we come to the key step where you apply the preparation in the first step. Once you understand the values that the person holds from listening and from doing your preparation, then you can put that into action. You need to use a value that is important to the other person and tie to the issue you care about. Research shows that using this technique will make it more likely that people will listen and pay attention and, at least sometimes, change their mind. On the other hand, using our own values instead, like we usually do, makes it more likely that they will resist.

Simply put, is there anything else we can do to ‘just be nicer to each other’? I know it sounds too simple to say apply the Golden Rule but it’s true. There’s a reason why just about every religion has some version of the Golden Rule, which is: “Do unto others as you would wish they would do unto you.” What’s even harder is the newly named Platinum Rule: “Do unto others as they would wish it to be done.” You may not want to do it because it sounds like you lose when you do that. What actually happens is that it helps you in the long run. The concept of karma encapsulates this, that helping others actually pays off in the long run for the helper. This has been validated in academic research, which Adam Grant talks about in his book, Givers and Takers.

We are going through a rough period now. Are you optimistic that this issue can eventually be resolved? Can you explain?

I have hope that we can learn to talk to each other in a new way that can help us to solve our issues. As I have been giving virtual talks around the country, I keep running into people who are hungry to learn how to bridge the divide and who want to find a way to make it happen. And I run into others who have similar missions, so there are a lot of people who have a lot of ideas on how we can solve this. Plus, your project to bring attention to these types of efforts gives me hope.

If you could tell young people one thing about why they should consider making a positive impact on our society, like you, what would you tell them?

They can make the world a better place, one community at a time. That’s where their power is. We all need to belong and belonging in person is more powerful than online. Substituting online interaction for in person contact has led to poorer mental health and an increase in suicide. But no community will be perfect, we have to be willing to work at it, be open to differences, to work through conflicts and be forgiving.

Is there a person in the world, or in the US, with whom you would like to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we tag them. :-) :-)

I would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with Melinda Gates. I love the work the Gates Foundation is doing but I think they could garner a lot more support or that work if they learned more about how to talk across the cultural divide. One example is the COVID-19 vaccines. People in the US on the right are less likely to be concerned about the disease and less likely to get the vaccine. But if you applied the techniques in my book and my newsletter, I think you could convince some of the vaccine resistors.

How can our readers follow you online?

My website www.persuadedontpreach.com, my newsletter: https://fracturedrelationships.substack.com/ and you can follow me on Linked in or Twitter or the Facebook group, Persuade, Don’t Preach.

This was very meaningful, and thank you so much for the time you spent on this interview. We wish you only continued success on your great work!

Putting The United Back Into The United States: Author Karen Tibbals On The 5 Things That Each Of… was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.